Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E03: Books From Beyond Discussion [SPOILERS]

@ashvsevildead123 - Don't mean you any harm, dude, it's just that the subject's a little OT! Feel free to build the thread if you'd like. Anyway, I wouldn't really be in this fandom if I was overtly offended by everything - I just want the show to Do Better.



Re Eligos

I'm pretty sure that Pablo's first big test is going to be exorcising Kelly of him/them/it

It's review time!

PROS:

* Those cheesy, cheesy jumpscares.  My favorite was Eligos basically 'booing' at and then throwing Amanda into a wall.

* Almost everything about Ruby's scene.  The way she handles the dagger is great/interesting.  And Kelly's Deadite dad was funny.

* I did get a laugh out of Ash's viking helmet story.

* The sense that they're trying to build a sense of family between the characters is good. For Ash to finally admit he needs somebody to watch out for him should have had a deeper impact on the story though.

* Ash's line about the demon updating its picture, like he was stuck on a bad Tinder date.

* The bit with the specimen jars was a good scare.


MIDDLES:

* The dialogue kept alternating between funny and clunky.

* Wow, this is the first time the show's gotten close to passing the Bechtel Test. Which is...something.

* Ugh, I'm not looking forward to the notion of Pablo having to "work his way out of the friendzone" with Kelly. I hate having to scarequote that but yeah.

* Ash's vulnerable spots poking out now and again. the script should be using these moments to much greater effect tho.

* Jill Marie Jones' was up and down on the scale, some lines just didn't land. I like her when they let her kick a little butt and I thought her scene with Dana was interesting but she didn't match Dana's strength in it.


NEGATIVES:

* The CGI.  It continues to scream 'we're not trying hard enough/this is all we could afford'. They should just let the creature effects speak for themselves, and Bruce shouldn't have lied about the mix being even during the press tour.  It is totally not even.   The CGI on the Eligos demon was really egregious and I know what they were shooting for but it was terrible. The glass shard scene could've been so much cooler and then it dead-ends.

* I know this is Evil Dead, where a guy chopped off his own hand and was perfectly fine afterwards, but they made such a big deal about Ash and Pablo's neurons being disconnected by the Eligos demon that I thought it was going to lead somewhere.  
Maybe Ash's Silent Hill dream next week will lead into something.

* The churro joke is even less useful/funny in the script than before.  Insert my evergreen complaint about the unnecessary nature of the show's racial humor, etc. Then ten minutes later we have "Nice Shooting, Tex Mex". Again, it's not about being "pc", it's about feeling real and true to the canon.

* Dana's acting was pretty uniformly awful. She was the best part about that scene with JMJ, but that kill line when she got rid of the demon should've been overdubbed.

* If only an "evil or stupid" person would release the evil, how is it that Knowby, who's a chaotic neutral at best, released them first?

* Brujos are not the same as witch doctors, canon.

* WHY would Ash leave a perfectly innocent woman alone and tied up in a room with an undismembered body? I know he "hates cops", is typically vengeful and is pissed at Amanda but he's basically throwing another human life into the line of fire.

* Amanda's not been allowed to have a single moment of awesomeness since the pilot.  She basically existed in this one to establish a flirtation with Ash, endear herself to Kelly as a trick, and then get tied up and/or knocked down. In fact, it's pretty much her fault the summoning circle is disturbed. Her character just keeps feeling weirdly unnecessary to me, which is so damn unfortunate because when she works, she works. Inconsistency remains the show's biggest foe for me.


OBSERVATIONS

* That meet-cute with Ash and Amanda is super obvious and Leading Somewhere

* If the power is inside of Ash, what does he have to do to release it?

* The demons all call Ash Ashley.  Hmm...

* I'm surprised people aren't chewing them out over the 'cops don't help' line.

* Pablo talking about manning up. I honestly hope that the two of them get together though Pablo being the opposite of Ash, honestly, I don't know how anyone else feels.

It's interesting that the reaction to this episode seems a little more mixed receptionwise.  I keep having mixed feelings about the show myself, I know how it goes.


Also

Please tell me at least one of you yelled 'Silent Hill' at that preview.

Another thumb-in-the-middle one for me, though I feel like I liked it slightly more than everyone else, which is odd.
 
demonovation said:
I thought the episode was great, had a sort of Supernatural vibe with the devils trap. I thought the CG was less bad. Sure they didn't need the synapse shots but they were OK and I actually really dug what they did with the demon, especially the mouth. I can't hate on everyone else's opinions, but I'm trying not to see the worst in every episode like it seems some people are. I've waited too long to be disappointed. There is just no way it could ever fully live up to 25 years of expectations, so just enjoy it for what it is.

THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE. Could not agree more!
 
Y'know, I can see what you guys both mean with the Supernatural feeling the episode had - I can pick out the parallel between what Supernatural does with its monsters of the week and what they were trying to do there, and the attempt at establishing a feeling at teamwork!
 
MaidOfKandar said:
@ashvsevildead123 - Don't mean you any harm, dude, it's just that the subject's a little OT!  Feel free to build the thread if you'd like.  Anyway, I wouldn't really be in this fandom if I was overtly offended by everything - I just want the show to Do Better.



Re Eligos

I'm pretty sure that Pablo's first big test is going to be exorcising Kelly of him/them/it

It's review time!

PROS:

* Those cheesy, cheesy jumpscares.  My favorite was Eligos basically 'booing' at and then throwing Amanda into a wall.

* Almost everything about Ruby's scene.  The way she handles the dagger is great/interesting.  And Kelly's Deadite dad was funny.

* I did get a laugh out of Ash's viking helmet story.

* The sense that they're trying to build a sense of family between the characters is good.  For Ash to finally admit he needs somebody to watch out for him should have had a deeper impact on the story though.

* Ash's line about the demon updating its picture, like he was stuck on a bad Tinder date.

* The bit with the specimen jars was a good scare.


MIDDLES:

* The dialogue kept alternating between funny and clunky.

* Wow, this is the first time the show's gotten close to passing the Bechtel Test.  Which is...something.

* Ugh, I'm not looking forward to the notion of Pablo having to "work his way out of the friendzone" with Kelly.  I hate having to scarequote that but yeah.

* Ash's vulnerable spots poking out now and again.  the script should be using these moments to much greater effect tho.

* Jill Marie Jones' was up and down on the scale, some lines just didn't land. I like her when they let her kick a little butt and I thought her scene with Dana was interesting but she didn't match Dana's strength in it.


NEGATIVES:

* The CGI.  It continues to scream 'we're not trying hard enough/this is all we could afford'.  They should just let the creature effects speak for themselves, and Bruce shouldn't have lied about the mix being even during the press tour.  It is totally not even.   The CGI on the Eligos demon was really egregious and I know what they were shooting for but it was terrible.  The glass shard scene could've been so much cooler and then it dead-ends.

* I know this is Evil Dead, where a guy chopped off his own hand and was perfectly fine afterwards, but they made such a big deal about Ash and Pablo's neurons being disconnected by the Eligos demon that I thought it was going to lead somewhere.  
Maybe Ash's Silent Hill dream next week will lead into something.

* The churro joke is even less useful/funny in the script than before.  Insert my evergreen complaint about the unnecessary nature of the show's racial humor, etc. Then ten minutes later we have "Nice Shooting, Tex Mex". Again, it's not about being "pc", it's about feeling real and true to the canon.

* Dana's acting was pretty uniformly awful.  She was the best part about that scene with JMJ, but that kill line when she got rid of the demon should've been overdubbed.

* If only an "evil or stupid" person would release the evil, how is it that Knowby, who's a chaotic neutral at best, released them first?

* Brujos are not the same as witch doctors, canon.

* WHY would Ash leave a perfectly innocent woman alone and tied up in a room with an undismembered body?  I know he "hates cops", is typically vengeful and is pissed at Amanda but he's basically throwing another human life into the line of fire.  

* Amanda's not been allowed to have a single moment of awesomeness since the pilot.  She basically existed in this one to establish a flirtation with Ash, endear herself to Kelly as a trick, and then get tied up and/or knocked down.  In fact, it's pretty much her fault the summoning circle is disturbed. Her character just keeps feeling weirdly unnecessary to me, which is so damn unfortunate because when she works, she works.  Inconsistency remains the show's biggest foe for me.






I totally agree with you. The forgetable ways of showing Ash's weak spots, the absence of a real Amanda Plot - I think the writing of the show just suffers from the short running time. A brilliant director and writer like Sam Raimi can handle this. He has the talent and experience to compress  story and  character development by using subtle visual cues (show, don't tell). But medicore TV folks can only milk a bland story out of 30min.
 
MaidOfKandar said:
What bothers me about it is that it's so, so clunky and gutless.  It's not just that it's Ash doing it, it's that it keeps happening and they keep trying to lampshade the "non pc" joke they really want to tell but seem to be afraid to tell for fear of backlash.  I think what they're trying to do is make him Archie Bunker-like while trying to keep him lovable and show how he's not evolved - at which point it fails because they can't seem to decide how socially sheltered and backwards Ash is. If it's a commentary on how the world is changing and on "pc culture", it fails.  I will add that as an actual, factual Latino person watching the show I find it dismaying but mostly because of how unnecessary it is.

That's a great answer, thank you. No doubt there is race humour in the show (this ep in particular) but I still kind feel that its Ash, rather than Pablo, that is supposed to be the butt of the joke. Are these jokes necessary is a different question. A show about a home town kinda guy battling the forces of evil probably DOESN'T need to follow in the footsteps of 2 Broke Girls and 100 other sitcoms. But I'm white, so maybe that is why it is easier for me to hand-wave this stuff off.

Gut0nez said:
Those jokes just weren't very funny to me and the "brown einstein" one was even worse than the churro one.

No doubt.

MaidOfKandar said:
The churro joke is even less useful/funny in the script than before.  Insert my evergreen complaint about the unnecessary nature of the show's racial humor, etc. Then ten minutes later we have "Nice Shooting, Tex Mex". Again, it's not about being "pc", it's about feeling real and true to the canon.

That one was a bit uncomfortable, yeah.

I remember in the Dark Horse Comics adaptation of Army of Darkness (from specificity, Sam and Ivan's first shooting script?) that Ash gets a nice little diatribe about 'Yanks having to step up and haul the Limeys butts out of the fire again just like in WW2' (been a while since I read it) I thought it strange that this didn't make the film, as I could see it playing well on both sides of the pond, but maybe it was a level-headed decision by the film maker's that this guy didn't need to be a COMPLETELY biased, bull-headed, asshole? KINDA related to the point but not quite, I know...

MaidOfKandar said:
WHY would Ash leave a perfectly innocent woman alone and tied up in a room with an undismembered body?  I know he "hates cops", is typically vengeful and is pissed at Amanda but he's basically throwing another human life into the line of fire.

I think Ruby will be making much the same point, real soon. Ash has been careless. Dangerously so.

[
MaidOfKandar said:
Pablo talking about manning up.  I honestly hope that the two of them get together though Pablo being the opposite of Ash, honestly, I don't know how anyone else feels.

Agreed. I feel like whoever cut that wonderful first trailer for Comic Con was very, very clever, as it looked like Kelly was going to take longer to warm up to Ash or remain healthily cynical of him for most of the season and, honestly, I kinda wish that was the case. I DO think these characters are going to be on less sure footing as things progress...

chainsaw_master said:
THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE. Could not agree more!

demonovation is exactly right. However, we've got 7 VERY quiet threads ahead of us if everyone decides to stop finding fault with the episodes...
 
I found this episode very "Harry Potteresque".  The Mortal Kombat CGI was a little too much but overall it was good.  Not the best but good.  I stopped screaming at the CGI.  I don't think they will be better this season.  Just hope they will work on it on the second season.
 
personally i think the demon nerd looked like something from the 
resident evil games.

Licker0.jpg


Nemesis1.jpg


the nerd demon

ash_vs_evil_dead_episode_3_books_from_beyond_rec.jpg
 
Anybody know what song plays at the start of the episode during the recap?
 
chainsaw_master said:
Anybody know what song plays at the start of the episode during the recap?

I think that's just some generic background rock'n roll music they also use for trailer and other videos... Nothing much more specific to it.
 
Alright In-Depth Review, same as last week Pro's Middle's and Con's.
(Disclaimer, The bad cgi critic will be off the list from here on out, as it will just keep getting repetitive to keep naming something off that will likely not get any better and it's just something the show is gonna have and something i will be ignoring for the rest of the season and naming it off as "i guess they didn't have time to do that scene with practical effects")

PRO'S 
The Car's scene's and everyone playing off with one other, you can really tell they have a lot of chemistry together and this car scene just proved it even more.

Pablo and Ash relationship is really starting to come together, and it was great to see them argue about summoning a demon especially pablo's line "That is incorrect !" the delivery was priceless.

I love the fact that this show is going in real time, it was great to see kelly still showing grief over her parent's and talking about pablo being the sliver lining but the "little brother" line and pablo's desperate attempt to try and show himself as more then just that was priceless.


Ash character is moving more away from "Immature creep who doesn't give a damn about anyone else but himself" to "Mentor who care's about the people around him."

The mythology is explored and expanded, i wonder what other demons will be coming to light in future episodes. 

Lionel character was really great, but i wish they hadn't killed him off so quickly.

Ruby (yes that is all i'm going to say)

Eligos was a fantastic demon and i hope we see more from him and plus did anyone notice he had a Dr.Claw type voice going for him haha. (for those wondering what i'm talking about, here's a video example.)
[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1j7lyRnxVE[/video]

Middle's

The effect on the demon is kinda Good/Bad, the way they did it were his body was moving but his mouth stayed still was pretty interesting. But at the same time i think they could have done without it and it would have been much scarier.



Con's

Amanda's character was very dumbed down and felt cliched in this episode, she basically caused the demon to get loose.



Not a lot else i can point out for this episode but now it's time for stuff i noticed story wise

Observations/Theory's

1. When they started the summoning, it quickly cut to ruby and it obviously having a effect on her, does this mean that she is a dark one or was someone in the knowby family secretly a dark one. 

2. I brought this theory up in a post i did on page 2, here's a quote.
Oh shit i just realized that kelly is still grieving over her parents deaths, now think back to what the lionel said about what eligos feeds off of.

"He prays on the spiritual and emotionally weak"

So if i'm correct, kelly is has become a host for eligos, god i love the subtle shit you can find in this show.
I wonder what will finally make eligos finally show his face again in the form of kelly, and how will pablo talk ash down  from killing her the second she turn's, those scene's are going to be very interesting to watch both Character Wise and overall Development as character's aswell.

3.@Other Frog Brother 
Brought up the fact that the end credits song lyrics are strangely fitting for what i just described in my theory above, i'm wondering if the other songs from the other two episodes hold any meaning to future event's or the current event's that took place in that episode. I'm defiantly going to be checking into these song's they pick for the end credits for the rest of the season. 

Here's those lyrics for this episode's song.


[font=arial, sans-serif]Now look out[/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif]I took a record of pretty music
I went down and baby you can tell
I took a record of pretty music
Now I'm putting it to you straight from hell[/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]I'll stick it deep inside
I'll stick it deep inside
Cause I'm loose[/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]I feel fine to be dancin', baby
I feel fine, I'm a shakin' leaf
I feel fine to be dancin', baby
Cause it's love, yeah I do believe[/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]I'll stick it deep inside
I'll stick it deep inside
Cause I'm loose[/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]And I'll stick it deep inside
And I'll stick it hey
Well I'm loose, well I'm loose
Well I'm loose[/font]
  
I'll post anything new i noticed from this week's episode if i find anything else worth noting.
 
I finally got a chance to sit down to watch episode 3, and don't even know where to start other than to say how much I like the part with the book, the animation (for lack of a better term at nearly 3 am) of the pages, and the bookstore owner Lionel. The creature was pretty badass, and so was Ruby... but I expected more of her in this episode. However, her flicking the for in Kelly's dads eye was  a nice touch. I will have to watch it again to get more in depth.


/Kelly's rings spell out the word hope in this one. So far we have free, here, and hope. 
 

CT4DFZyUAAAbmEJ.jpg:large
 
Nick el Ass said:
I finally got a chance to sit down to watch episode 3, and don't even know where to start other than to say how much I like the part with the book, the animation (for lack of a better term at nearly 3 am) of the pages, and the bookstore owner Lionel. The creature was pretty badass, and so was Ruby... but I expected more of her in this episode. However, her flicking the for in Kelly's dads eye was  a nice touch. I will have to watch it again to get more in depth.


/Kelly's rings spell out the word hope in this one. So far we have free, here, and hope. 
 

CT4DFZyUAAAbmEJ.jpg:large

Nice! I rereally dig what the wardrobe department has done in this show
 
General notes/thoughts in no particular order:

- I... sorta liked the CGI on the demon. I totally get what you guys are all saying, and its very possible they added it in post because it didn't look good enough (you have to shoot practical suits very specifically to get the right feel, and that scene's bright lighting may have made it look more silly than scary), but on my end I thought it was a neat way to present the idea that different demons present themselves different ways in our world.

- I really, REALLY was hoping for a Ted Raimi cameo as the book store owner. I don't know why (besides just hoping he'll turn up at some point somewhere), but it just felt like a particularly good spot for him.

- They wasted waaay too much time on the summoning scene (look! more things rattling! Papers flying! Wheee!). I feel like that time could have been better spent in the episode.

- Ruby is a badass chick in a leather jacket who carries a knife that can hurt demons. Supernatural, anyone?

- Ruby's knife appears to have a snake skull handle. So I'd call it "Ruby's Knife" rather than "THE knife." Unless this is just their version of it this time around. Personally, I'll always lean toward the one made out of vertebrae.

- Ash's characterization: Still not quite there, but the "silly racism" stuff didn't really bother me. I think him assuming Pablo is Mexican makes sense for the character (older white male who doesn't really seem to care about social norms), as does him trying to be supportive of that - or his version of supportive. It is a bit clunky writing-wise, but it makes sense to me.

- Necronomicon Histrory: Always fun to learn more, but I'm curious what the whole "multiple demons" thing means to the overall lore. We've certainly seen different types of deadites/evil, but since it all sorta shows up once anything out of the book is read, I'm not sure I buy the idea of them all having different incantations. It really feels like a "Buffy" sort of thing to me - "Oh look! A detailed drawing of the monster we're fighting this week, and how to kill it! Neat!" At the same time, I get that they need to expand the lore a bit to deepen the story, so maybe I'm just bitching for no reason on that one.

- Ruby's connection to the book: "wait and see" is my thought here. Could have just been added in for dramatic effect, or as a red herring. Though it'd be fun if, say, she had been possessed at some point and was freed, but retains a connection to the book?

- Anyone else bugged by the seeming immaturity of the show runner during the "behind the scenes" thing? Really sorta caught me off guard, and might explain a lot of the things people seem to be unhappy about. "There was an almost naked guy on set, tee-hee! But, I guess people were just like whatever about it, so whatever I guess." Yeah, dude - its called filmmaking, and sometimes it requires an actor to play a demon without wearing his dockers.

- Team Ash: seriously, we as the fans have a responsibility to name the group. I'll start a thread.

-Overall thoughts: not a bad episode. Definitely a lore builder, which needs to be done, but the tone still feels a bit off to me. Get more dramatic in the lighting and camera movements during the horror scenes and we'll be doing a lot better.
 
Ted Raimi likely won't be involved until next season if at all.


chainsaw_master said:
Nice! I rereally dig what the wardrobe department has done in this show


I really like Kelly's purple jacket, and would wear something like that if there was a male version. Ash's outfit is spot on... and Pablo had a cool shirt.
 
DONT SPOIL THIS FOR ME NICK. A MAN CAN DREAM.

But I swear, if the words "bean curd" come out of anyone's mouth on that show I'm leaving and never looking back.
 
KingRob said:
- Ruby's knife appears to have a snake skull handle. So I'd call it "Ruby's Knife" rather than "THE knife." Unless this is just their version of it this time around. Personally, I'll always lean toward the one made out of vertebrae.

I think it's the actual Kandarian dagger that we saw in the first two films. I didn't notice the skull, but it's very similar to how it looked on the first film, with the metal blade coming out of the bone handle instead of being made entirely out of bone like in Evil Dead 2. Regardless of how it looks, I'm pretty sure it's meant to be the same dagger.

- Anyone else bugged by the seeming immaturity of the show runner during the "behind the scenes" thing? Really sorta caught me off guard, and might explain a lot of the things people seem to be unhappy about. "There was an almost naked guy on set, tee-hee! But, I guess people were just like whatever about it, so whatever I guess." Yeah, dude - its called filmmaking, and sometimes it requires an actor to play a demon without wearing his dockers.

Yeah, that bit was weird and a little awkward. Was that really the most interesting part of that interview that related to this week's episode? I'm still not sure what to think about that guy based on his interviews.
 
4th episode promotional photos have been put up.

http://images.spoilertv.com/Ash%20vs%20Evil%20Dead/Season%201/Promotional%20Episode%20Photos/Episode%201.04%20-%20Brujo/1-8.jpg.php

one of the photo's shows ash with his hand again and somewhere very sunny,my best guess. It's his happy place, and there's another photo of kelly obviously holding her head in pain while pablo comforts her. HMMMMMMMMM.....*cough*eligos*cough*
 
close-up of the dagger hilt:


EDIT - looking more closely while I grabbed that screencap, it also looks like there's no tiny human skull on the hilt like in the other iterations - I think it's just a plain bone. So curious to see if this is "THE" knife or something else - and it'll be interesting to see if Ash recognizes it at all or if that's another part of the full story that'll get swept under the rug.
 
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