DyD
Spinach Chin
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Joem1k said:
Atmosphere and tone are good. Dana's acting, though? Yeesh.
Ash vs Evil Dead S01E10: The Dark One Discussion [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter Kain
- Start date
Atmosphere and tone are good. Dana's acting, though? Yeesh.
Nick el Ass
Hero from the Sky
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DyD said:
Really? I think Dana does a damn good job, but the poor guy who played her dad was terrible even when looking back at some of the acting in the original Evil Dead which was just as rough at times.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
Joem1k said:
I think Dana's the weakest link among the regulars actingwise; she definitely has her moments but she wasn't very good at believably delivering the anger required of her. I believed Kelly in the pilot and her anger there, but her line readings keep coming out cardboard.
Also was Kelly trying to bust the tape recorder there or was she pounding on the closed trap door?
Ruby definitely chains Pablo up in the basement to birth her lover then. I'm guessing Ash follows them both down?
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MaidOfKandar said:
She's trying to chop down the cellar door with the axe.
and this basically confirms my theory of ash and pablo being kidnapped and held hostage by ruby in the cellar and kelly making a last ditch effort to save them both.
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Okay, this was the best episode we could have ever hoped to see... Minus the last five minutes. I really don't know what to think about that. :/
- Joined
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So I just watched it and I've got conflicted emotions. There's a bit of good horror in it, you genuinely feel awful for Pablo, Kelly steps it up as an Ash successor...
...But then Ash makes That Choice and while it would initially seem like an Ashlike thing to do, and it at least and plunges the show into more Ash Makes the World Worse storytelling (and the narrative and we all know that he did it to save Pablo and Kelly), on further analysis - it GRATES on me so much. Not only because he learned nothing - and yeah, we all know Sam loves to do that but if you build up a whole season about Ash "Saving the world for all of the daddies and babies" and then do this with his character it feels like a betrayal to the audience - not only because them having him think Jacksonville is going to be some protected pocket of peace because Dark Ones NEVER go back on their word, but because it's the most mercenary and self-involved thing he's done in this canon ever. EVEN with the notion that he's trying to save Pablo and Kelly - because how can he not see he may have basically guaranteed them even more brutal deaths? Because fate dumped all of those twist "This is worse" endings on him before - here he chooses it deliberately. He was not this self-involved even in freaking AOD, which says a lot. It takes what little character development they've given him and mercilessly flushes it down the toilet. Now I know why Bruce felt defensive about the ending - because it feels like we got literally nowhere. Everything meant nothing. We wasted eons on the Pablo/Kelly shit and they don't kiss or even get closer. We wasted eons on Ash trying to stop the evil only to have the narrative go LOL NOPE LET'S MAKE HIM EVEN STUPIDER THAN YOU DARED DREAM HE MIGHT BE. We entirely wasted Amanda's character arc - her purpose in Ash's life could have been filled by a particularly attractive joint. Ruby's character arc was so badly handled that they gave her godlike powers totally out of the blue seven episodes in (she was generally saved for me by her coolness but dear God it feels like this Dark One stuff was made up on a whim). I know they have to build stuff up to pay it off in later seasons, but with the ratings they have the likelihood they will get more than two is very, very low. They are IMMENSELY lucky that they got renewed with an ending like that one. This could have happened during the third episode for all of the change it wrought.
You can argue all you want about Ash having no honor. You can argue that he's a coward. But this? This fucking pushes the line.
Also the hiker characters were so totally superfluous and useless after all. Heather didn't even have an interesting onscreen death, ffs, and she effected no narrative change - the only thing she did was stand there and remind us of the remake. LOOK GUYS THE REMAKE. REMEMBER WE PUT NAILS IN THAT GIRL'S FACE IN THE REMAKE, REMEMBER?! And Amanda's second (hilariously phallic) death was obviously there for cheap gore because they felt like they needed more cheap gore in the plot (I know complaining about cheap gore in an Evil Dead production is ridiculous but when you have a half hour and a half hour only it feels like time is being wasted - yeah, i'm gonna complain about it). You could stay stuff about relationship resolution but we had that. He said goodbye. We didn't need the shit last episode about her boobs and we certainly don't need the shit we get this week about Amanda "not remembering this part of their relationship" (Show, please stop fucking with how Deadite possession works). It was over. She was thoroughly killed earlier. Someone somewhere will be pissed off over the symbolism about that one but I couldn't be arsed to give a fuck at this point. The gore was only good and interesting enough during that scene. At least we got floating Deadites and talking white-eyed Deadites.
Also yeah, that huge Ruby narrative gap in episode 7 was definitely the result of them hacking shit out, because she does not, thank god, make out with the demonette.
I ultimately feel like the show wasted my time this season. Like mercilessly nonstop wasted my time with almost every character and gore that was generally subpar. The best things about the show are Ruby and Pablo and they are slowly making me hate Ash, who is one of my favorite characters in all of fiction, bar none. They need to tighten the wheels on Kelly next season, and FFS if they're going to give Ash another temporary love interest PLEASE give her more of a life than Amanda. AND PLEASE FUCKING FIX ASH. He can be a bit selfish, he can be a bit cowardly, he can love his creature comforts, but he is NOT A FUCKING SOCIOPATH.
I'll come back after a rewatch with further thoughts tonight.
...But then Ash makes That Choice and while it would initially seem like an Ashlike thing to do, and it at least and plunges the show into more Ash Makes the World Worse storytelling (and the narrative and we all know that he did it to save Pablo and Kelly), on further analysis - it GRATES on me so much. Not only because he learned nothing - and yeah, we all know Sam loves to do that but if you build up a whole season about Ash "Saving the world for all of the daddies and babies" and then do this with his character it feels like a betrayal to the audience - not only because them having him think Jacksonville is going to be some protected pocket of peace because Dark Ones NEVER go back on their word, but because it's the most mercenary and self-involved thing he's done in this canon ever. EVEN with the notion that he's trying to save Pablo and Kelly - because how can he not see he may have basically guaranteed them even more brutal deaths? Because fate dumped all of those twist "This is worse" endings on him before - here he chooses it deliberately. He was not this self-involved even in freaking AOD, which says a lot. It takes what little character development they've given him and mercilessly flushes it down the toilet. Now I know why Bruce felt defensive about the ending - because it feels like we got literally nowhere. Everything meant nothing. We wasted eons on the Pablo/Kelly shit and they don't kiss or even get closer. We wasted eons on Ash trying to stop the evil only to have the narrative go LOL NOPE LET'S MAKE HIM EVEN STUPIDER THAN YOU DARED DREAM HE MIGHT BE. We entirely wasted Amanda's character arc - her purpose in Ash's life could have been filled by a particularly attractive joint. Ruby's character arc was so badly handled that they gave her godlike powers totally out of the blue seven episodes in (she was generally saved for me by her coolness but dear God it feels like this Dark One stuff was made up on a whim). I know they have to build stuff up to pay it off in later seasons, but with the ratings they have the likelihood they will get more than two is very, very low. They are IMMENSELY lucky that they got renewed with an ending like that one. This could have happened during the third episode for all of the change it wrought.
You can argue all you want about Ash having no honor. You can argue that he's a coward. But this? This fucking pushes the line.
Also the hiker characters were so totally superfluous and useless after all. Heather didn't even have an interesting onscreen death, ffs, and she effected no narrative change - the only thing she did was stand there and remind us of the remake. LOOK GUYS THE REMAKE. REMEMBER WE PUT NAILS IN THAT GIRL'S FACE IN THE REMAKE, REMEMBER?! And Amanda's second (hilariously phallic) death was obviously there for cheap gore because they felt like they needed more cheap gore in the plot (I know complaining about cheap gore in an Evil Dead production is ridiculous but when you have a half hour and a half hour only it feels like time is being wasted - yeah, i'm gonna complain about it). You could stay stuff about relationship resolution but we had that. He said goodbye. We didn't need the shit last episode about her boobs and we certainly don't need the shit we get this week about Amanda "not remembering this part of their relationship" (Show, please stop fucking with how Deadite possession works). It was over. She was thoroughly killed earlier. Someone somewhere will be pissed off over the symbolism about that one but I couldn't be arsed to give a fuck at this point. The gore was only good and interesting enough during that scene. At least we got floating Deadites and talking white-eyed Deadites.
Also yeah, that huge Ruby narrative gap in episode 7 was definitely the result of them hacking shit out, because she does not, thank god, make out with the demonette.
I ultimately feel like the show wasted my time this season. Like mercilessly nonstop wasted my time with almost every character and gore that was generally subpar. The best things about the show are Ruby and Pablo and they are slowly making me hate Ash, who is one of my favorite characters in all of fiction, bar none. They need to tighten the wheels on Kelly next season, and FFS if they're going to give Ash another temporary love interest PLEASE give her more of a life than Amanda. AND PLEASE FUCKING FIX ASH. He can be a bit selfish, he can be a bit cowardly, he can love his creature comforts, but he is NOT A FUCKING SOCIOPATH.
I'll come back after a rewatch with further thoughts tonight.
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I just don't understand WHY did they do this. The one thing Ash is learning about himself throughout this series is to embrace his Jefe self and to "shoot first, think never", but at the end, he does exactly the opposite and even Pablo and Kelly are saying to him that it's a bad idea. This is not even "lol, Ash is stupid", this is a whole new level, that doesn't make any sense whatsoever and makes me hate the character. For me, the first thirty minutes of this were perfect. This was Evil Dead 4 in the best shape we could ever hope for. But that ending... WHY?!
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
@Hurley - it's arguable that he's "thinking never" in terms of narrative, but that's the writers making the decision look worse instead of cool and badass.
It's all starting to verge into 'they just didn't care' territory for me, which is weird because Bruce seems to care a lot.
It's all starting to verge into 'they just didn't care' territory for me, which is weird because Bruce seems to care a lot.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2015
I just got done watching the episode, and i have to say this was probably the best of the series. Yes i am a little dissapointed some thing's didn't get answered or touched on in this final episode but this finale was made with the intent that they were getting cancelled, and it show's because of how open ended it truly is. I'm probably gonna be in the minority here in saying this but this episode probably had the best writing in term's of character for ash pablo,kelly and ruby, yes it does feel like a big slap in the face when he accepts the deal but i ain't just gonna ignore the fact that he tried his best in the first half of this episode to stop ruby and not accept her deal, yet in the end he got smooth talked into accepting it by ruby and ruby alone, she basically used pablo and kelly against him plus his immense desire of seeing jacksonville (which i hope is burnt to the ground when they get there in the next season.) and the promise of keeping the evil in check, and them going there seperate way's (and he did keep the dagger for a reason as he put it as "INSURANCE"). And if you watch the car scene more closely and read ash's facial expression's before he turn's on ac/dc, you can see the look of regret in his eyes it's subtle but there.
I'll elaborate more on this when i get home today but i ain't fixing to write off ash's character just yet, this was mostly ruby's doing rather it being on ash this time.
I'll elaborate more on this when i get home today but i ain't fixing to write off ash's character just yet, this was mostly ruby's doing rather it being on ash this time.
The Other Frog Brother
S-Mart Clerk
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- Nov 2, 2015
What a great episode! You can really see where most of this season's budget ended up with the FX work. The direction had great flair (but why insert that Evil Dead 2 footage of Jake? Just because you CAN...), and they finally got me to give a crap about Kelly! (This was Dana's episode) The ending: Bit of an anti-climax. The downer vibe bit, I get. Its pretty true to the trilogy, I guess. I always preferred AoD's S-Mart ending to the original apocalypse ending, but Sam and Bruce certainly don't. I think Kelly should have been the one to put Pablo out of his misery in that basement. It would have been kinda romantic. lol
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Joem1k said:
Lionel said to Ash that the Dark Ones created the Necronomicon as a weapon against humanity, Ruby said to Ash that she's gonna unleash everything to this world and Pablo said to Ash that he knows what's out there and what he had unleashed. Yet Ash still believes that Ruby wants to "keep everything in check". And it's not even that hard for him to accept it. He's all smug about it and says to Pablo that he should show a little gratitude (even though Pablo begs him not to do it, BECAUSE HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT).
I agree that everything prior to that ending is almost perfect and I'm even giving DiGregorio some credit for it (it actually surprised me that he wrote the episode), but I just can't accept that ending, it's just dogshit, I'm sorry. For me it dragged down not only this othervise brilliant episode, but also the series overall.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
@Joe - I think it's possible he's feeling some regret, but he pretty much IMMEDIATELY realizes he's messed up big time once he starts hearing the radio reports and then does nada to fix the situation. When people are screaming at each other to stay indoors I do believe I'd say the evil's not being properly dealt with. But he just keeps his head down and driving everyone to Jacksonville. You'd think that he'd try to cash in his insurance payment the second he realizes the world's suffering around him, but no. It's a direct violation of what they established with his self-announced world-saving intent in the second episode.
You could say he's doing it for them both, and he quite clearly is, but Pablo and Kelly completely and clearly resent the choice he's made for them and hate that he's making it, so in the end nobody wins. I know it's Evil Dead and they have this idea that a downbeat ending is apropos (even tho AOD has a hopeful one and ED2 isn't entirely hopeless because at least Ash is surrounded by people and the entire world isn't chaos), but not when you're denigrating your hero at the expense of sticking a thumb in your audience's eye.
Ash has always been an anti-hero (at least AOD Ash has always been one), but in the movies there was a line. He did not suffer the evil gladly and when he realized other people were getting hurt he'd step up to the plate. But here...they're pushing the likability envelope with him. I'm dreading the end of the year and the season 2 rushes.
Yep, this is exactly my problem too.
You could say he's doing it for them both, and he quite clearly is, but Pablo and Kelly completely and clearly resent the choice he's made for them and hate that he's making it, so in the end nobody wins. I know it's Evil Dead and they have this idea that a downbeat ending is apropos (even tho AOD has a hopeful one and ED2 isn't entirely hopeless because at least Ash is surrounded by people and the entire world isn't chaos), but not when you're denigrating your hero at the expense of sticking a thumb in your audience's eye.
Ash has always been an anti-hero (at least AOD Ash has always been one), but in the movies there was a line. He did not suffer the evil gladly and when he realized other people were getting hurt he'd step up to the plate. But here...they're pushing the likability envelope with him. I'm dreading the end of the year and the season 2 rushes.
Hurley said:
Yep, this is exactly my problem too.
The Other Frog Brother
S-Mart Clerk
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- Nov 2, 2015
Well, I'm pretty curious as to what season 2 will be now, as they certainly do NOT have a budget that could show a world overrun by Deadites. Maybe it'll be a 'monster-of-the-week' type deal where they have to go in and dispatch some boss-level demon. (Supposing that the unleashed evil starts dividing countries/neighbourhoods up into different territories, where they can run things behind the scenes.) I also hope that Kelly and Pablo will be Ghost Beaters a little more independent of Ash until he redeems himself.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
@TOFB: I'm guessing tons of CGI or (if we're lucky) models and puppets. I wouldn't be surprised if Starz cut their budget this year because of the show's under-performance.
ETA: will be starting a spin-off subject in the OT discussion thread at Kain's request about season 2 talk/overall season discussion sometime in the evening.
ETA: will be starting a spin-off subject in the OT discussion thread at Kain's request about season 2 talk/overall season discussion sometime in the evening.
Robo Rider
S-Mart Clerk
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- Nov 22, 2015
This episode reminds me of the season finale of Supernatural where Sam kills Lilith and that starts the apocalypse, last sign that needs to be broken for the Devil to walk the Earth in that now that Ruby is given the book face back she can do Jim Carey mask again to someone else and that it sets up next season for unthinkable horror that awaits our ragtag team of ghostbeaters. Another similarity between supernatural and this show is the blade they used to kill demons, Sam and Dean Winchester have a similar blade. Glad Ash is keeping the blade for season 2.
I loved how Pablo kept telling Ash you have no idea what's out there also a hint that season 2 is going to be kickass. I do feel that this was Ash at his core, finding a way to shirk his responsibility, to accept a deal made by a dark one to let someone else handle the mess he started. Sure he had some good intentions to save Pablo and Kelly so that can't be all selfish of him.
I found the scene where Ash said I'm not losing any more people I care about funny. Kelly asks if that included her and he said of course. Then Heather asked me too? Sure just make sure you stay close to her,
Ash did say the last 40 years which Ruby corrected him by saying 10 years of his life. So hopefully we got 10 seasons coming.
I did like that line about how Ash told Pablo that he forgot to tell him to gas up the chainsaw when they were at the cabin. If you look at the following week's episode thread you will notice I posted that Pablo forgot to tell Ash to gas up the chainsaw in the militia compound episode. I didn't know it would pay off like this though lol.
One thing this episode didn't clear up is Ruby really the sister of Annie Knowbee inhabited by a old one that wrote the book? Was she just using that information and claiming to be a family member?
I felt that Kelly should have said something more then Pablo isn't my boyfriend when kicking Heather's head like maybe "He will be."
I can't wait for season 2. Wonder how long we have to wait 2 months?
I loved how Pablo kept telling Ash you have no idea what's out there also a hint that season 2 is going to be kickass. I do feel that this was Ash at his core, finding a way to shirk his responsibility, to accept a deal made by a dark one to let someone else handle the mess he started. Sure he had some good intentions to save Pablo and Kelly so that can't be all selfish of him.
I found the scene where Ash said I'm not losing any more people I care about funny. Kelly asks if that included her and he said of course. Then Heather asked me too? Sure just make sure you stay close to her,
Ash did say the last 40 years which Ruby corrected him by saying 10 years of his life. So hopefully we got 10 seasons coming.
I did like that line about how Ash told Pablo that he forgot to tell him to gas up the chainsaw when they were at the cabin. If you look at the following week's episode thread you will notice I posted that Pablo forgot to tell Ash to gas up the chainsaw in the militia compound episode. I didn't know it would pay off like this though lol.
One thing this episode didn't clear up is Ruby really the sister of Annie Knowbee inhabited by a old one that wrote the book? Was she just using that information and claiming to be a family member?
I felt that Kelly should have said something more then Pablo isn't my boyfriend when kicking Heather's head like maybe "He will be."
I can't wait for season 2. Wonder how long we have to wait 2 months?
I have to say episode 10 was the most disappointing episode of the season for me. It's like the writers ran out of steam just right after episode 9. I didn't like how the episode ended at all. I'm curious to how they will resolve it in season 2, which will probably be the last season.
Robo Rider
S-Mart Clerk
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- Nov 22, 2015
The ending was a bit disappointing. I was hoping they would leave us with a bit more of a taste of what to expect in season 2 then just having a radio broadcast of massive sinkholes opening up. Well the book translater did say that it was able to open passageways to hell. Those holes can be those passageways and demons could climb out of them. I can see Pablo and Kelly blaming Ash a lot in the next season for a bigger mess that they now have to clean up though.
The Other Frog Brother
S-Mart Clerk
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- Nov 2, 2015
Is that the Freddy glove in the cellar!? Check at 11 mins 36 secs. I don't have HD so I could be wrong.