AvED - What is your opinion? [SPOILERS!]

[Muzzlehatch]

Hi guys,

as stated in the S3 thread I would like to hear your general opinion on the show.

How were your reactions and expectations when it was announced for the first time?
Which of your expectations were fulfilled so far? Which were not?
What did you like? What not so much?
What would you have done differently?
What do you hope or expect for S3?

To make the start:

****** SPOILER & CRAPPY ENGLISH WARNING ******

When the show was announced, at first I had to check my calendar. Evil Dead as a TV Series with Bruce back as Ash sounded too much like an April Fools’ joke, especially after all these AoD2 rumors that showed up whenever Sam was in the mood to torment the fans.

After realizing that this was legit, I was extremely thrilled but also a little bit confused and concerned. From all the movie franchises I like ED did not seem like an ideal candidate for a TV serial. There were some fun comics and even video games developing the simplistic movie stories a little bit further but nothing that could be compared to the narrative depth of such shows like Game of Thrones or Walking Dead. The fact that the original trilogy’s tone really differs from movie to movie only made it harder for me to imagine the final product.

But the first bits of information we got and specially the trailer made me hopeful. As stated in several interviews Sam, Rob and Bruce aimed for a perfect mix between the horror and the comedy of all three original movies and the first trailer promised that. Excellent effects, surprisingly high production values, scary new deadites and a badass demon (Eligos!) and even some nice, clever jokes that toyed with iconic movie moments (“You know, they were jewish, right?”).

Fortunately, the pilot episode was able to deliver nearly all of this. Like the most of you I had a few problems with it, especially concerning the character department, especially Ash’s portrayal (bathroom sex, reading from the Necronomicon because …). But beside that I really loved it and could not wait for the next episode. In particular there were two things I liked and made me thrilled in the long run:

1. Taking Ash’s bloody but funny battle against evil and putting it in a wider, more grounded context: ED1 and ED2 played out in a claustrophobic setting, AoD in the past. But now, for the very first time we had the chance to explore how the real world would react to an invasion by Kandarian demons. The news reports about gruesome deaths and mysterious sinkholes promised as much as the police investigation on Ash’s trail did.

2. Mysterious Ruby: I am not totally sure, but I think at that point Lucy already revealed Ruby’s alleged relationship to the Knowby family. But that was ok for me. It thrilled me even more. I was eager to see her continuing her father’s studies or a way of fighting the evil dead in a way that could have been very different and more character driven than Ash’s story.

These two points seemed like good potential for a broader narrative arc. Unfortunately, the show did not do that much with it.
After her confession that she is a dark one and the one who wrote the book she quickly turned from an interesting character into a stereotypically fantasy villain whose confusingly vague goals where cloaked into incoherent mythology mambo jambo.

The police / public chaos story line was also dropped sometimes during S1. After Fisher’s death, there is no mention at all regarding an investigation. In S2 Ash is an outsider in his home town and a disappointment for this father because he chopped of his friends and ran away from responsibility, but his reappearance does not have any consequences and the show does not even try to explain, how he was able to run away of being the prime suspect in the case of a forest cabin full of dead teenagers. The fact that Elk Grove is invaded by demons also does not seem to gather the public’s attention. But at that the point show was already a lost case for me.

The things I liked about the pilot and most of S1 more and more disappeared and everything I already disliked was turned up to 11. Instead of fleshing out Ash’s character and specially his life before ED1 Elk Grove only provided the suburban setting for a cheesy, hormone driven parody. Instead of taking the few characters and story lines from the movies, that could still be dealt with (What kind of guy was Ash before the cabin? What happened to him immediately after returning as the only survivor? What did the authorities do? What about the families of Scotty, Linda, Shelly or the Knowbys? What was Prof. Knowbys interest in the Necronomicon in the first place?), we got the introduction of several new characters (Brock, Chet, Linda B.), who had absolutely no connections to the movies and / or were killed off after a few episodes without getting any proper character development either.

The development of Ash and his new gang also did not deliver that much. We already talked pages about Ash new pervert drunkard persona and the limited character development Pablo and Kelly got (After their initial awakening moments (the deaths of Kelly’s parents / Brujo’s fate) their arcs can be reduced to some well known tropes and an seemingly aimless wandering around the status quo). So I don’t want to repeat myself here and I don’t want to only criticize either. There are several things I really LIKED about the show:

+ While a handicap regarding a deep narrative, the show never felt boring thanks to the 30min format
+ The production values, specially the sets were often quite amazing
+ Great cast, even in some supporting roles
+ Sometimes the acting really surprised. For example I really liked Bruce acting as Evil Ash and as a broken Ash during the asylum episode. I would love to see more of this stuff!
+ In S1 a good mix of rock classics and orchestra tunes (specially in the cabin episodes)
+ Bruce back as Ash (!!!)
…


Well, I have more things on my mind, positive and negative things, but I have to leave for the moment. In the meantime I am eager to hear your opinions.

 

[Panos]

Well this is an interesting topic.

I've talked about this a lot around internet forums and such , hours of discussion , and let me prefix this by saying that i was one of those people who wished they had continued with the movie route after the 2013 Evil Dead like they originaly intended. Hearing the interviews right before S1 first aired Sam and Bruce had convinced me about the show. They talked about having the chance for better character developement , how they would delve deep into the Evil Dead universe and Ash's story. They talked about how important it was for the fans that they had Sam Raimi back on board to actually write/direct  etc.

We are close to S3 now...what happened to all those promises?

My overall opinion is probably not gonna be liked by many in this forum but Ash vs Evil Dead has been wasted potential personified. And it pisses me off how it seems like they never even intended for it to be anything worth our time to beggin with.

What do these people want?" they most likely thought.

> They want Bruce Campbell as Ash , they want camp , they wan't jokes and one liners.

"Which is the safest/cheapest way for us to give them that?"

> A TV show

And thats what they did.

Story be damned , horror be damned , creativeness be damned , character progression be damned. The show has very little going for it besides nostalgia ,so why are people acting surprised that its not doing well and Bruce is talking about cancelation?(while putting the blame on the fans instead of looking at the show's obvious shortcomings)

I don't want to be too harsh because they might have actually had something different in their minds when they first started the show and some things just didn't work out the way they wanted (with the DiGregorio situation, script overhaul etc)...but how can we act that Sam , Bruce and Rob aren't to blame?

Can we talk about Sam Raimi for a second? Wasn't him returning to direct/write one of the biggest draws to the show (alongside Bruce being back as Ash). Where has he been the last couple of years? He only directed 1 episode! Honestly he seems like he isn't even involved with the show anymore at all after season 1. I'm not even convinced he is as involved in the writting of it. I'm not even convinced he cares about the show anymore.

So what are my problems with the show itself..

My problem is that instead of a creative over the top horror show Ash vs Evil Dead seems to have turned into a buddy cop comedy with deadites. It has no stakes (main characters die but then come back) , it has barely any character development for its MAIN CHARACTER let alone Kelly, Pablo and Ruby who just seem like the same 3 people in how many hours over two seasons we've had. Where is all the character proggresion we were promised? Suposedly the reason they went with the TV show instead of a big budget Evil Dead movie!

So instead of an actuall interesting story arc we get generic bad guys like Baal wanting to "do evil". Character scenes make room for head up a corpses butt jokes , colon fight scenes , head first into toiletes with urine scenes..

"I think that the comedy is the most important part of the show, so i don't want for the show to get too serious since it will take away from that". - Craig DiGregorio

Yeah no Craig, i don't agree with that. The reason why the comedy in Evil Dead 2 worked so well is because of the pure horror elements that movie (and the original) had. The reason why Ash laughing along with the deer head and the entire house is so brilliant is because you actually feel like you are watching a guy going insane after being tormented for what seems like forever and having lost almost everything important to him. I get NOTHING close to that while watching this show.

Lets talk about Ash himself as a character...they have turned him into a complete mumbling idiot! That is not the Ash character i remember in the movies! Its not even close to that.  i don't know, maybe its because i was never a big fan of AoD but even in that movie Ash didn't seem like the same character we see in the show. To me this looks like Bruce Campbell doing stand up in an Ash costume. Bruce coming out and saying that he tells the writters "if the material is not good don't be surprised with what you see in dailies" makes me think that is actually the case, i think Bruce at this stage of his career might actually be a bit too full of himself.

I mean tho seriously? How can you have Ash return to the town he grew up, a town where people consider him this crazy out of his mind murderer, have him meet his father, and YET coming out of that whole story arc feeling like the character of Ash has not grown one bit? Well these writers managed to do that.

S3 , from what we've heard/seen so far seems just like some of the same. Bruce coming out "your jaw will drop in the final 2 episodes"...well what about the entire rest of the season Bruce? S2 it was "your jaw will drop when you see what we did in episode 2" (referring to the colon fight scene).

Thinking of what the show could have been...looking at what it is...listening to Bruce saying that he is most likely done with the role of Ash once the show runs its course...its all kinda sad to me.

Oh well, i've often been accused of not being a "real Evil Dead fan" for liking the remake and not wanting the franchise to turn into a comedy but understand that its actual strength comes from the horror elements of the story just as much as its main character's ability to somehow cope with it all. Not poop jokes, not dick jokes , not sperm fights, not colon fights , not boob fights.

But i guess these past 2 seasons have been what "real Evil Dead fans" want to see? Maybe. Has it been what i wan't to see? Most definitely not. Has it been what new fans probably unfamiliar with the franchise want to see? Well , the show being closed to getting canceled probably asnwers that question.

 

[Sutter Cane]

How were your reactions and expectations when it was announced for the first time?

When I saw the first teaser trailer I was very exited.  I thought they were going back to the Evil Dead 2 era.  Which is in my opinion the more balanced movie of the trilogy.  ED2 is the perfect balance between horror & comedy.  AoD is funny but too much cartoony for my taste.   When they told they were not going back on AoD I was pleased.  

Which of your expectations were fulfilled so far? Which were not?

Well, all the keys elements was there in Season 1.  I mean the over the top gore, the cabin, the end, the book and Ash of course....I mean everything was there but not the magic.  My expectation was to get Ash to be more like Evil Dead 2 and a little bit like Army of Darkness.  Unfortunately they just did an Homer Simpson of the character.  I was expecting more mythology.  They bring some but they butchered it.  

What did you like? What not so much?

I like the elements which feel like an Evil Dead movie.  The series is a hit and miss, so it very difficult to point out everything.  One scene feel like Evil Dead the next one to American Pie.  I'm not nostalgic to the point they must bring back the same thing over and over.  they already did this too much in S2 and it was just bad.  I was expecting new twists.   Every time they go with a gross fart, poo or pee joke, it turn me off.  It''s not because you have the freedom to do everything you want it's a good idea.  The sitcom formula is awful, the scenario is mostly bad and the sidekicks are way too caricatural. 

What would you have done differently?

1) get better writers with knowledge of time travel and butterfly effect.   2) A more serious tone 3) temporary sidekick only.  Everyone must die around Ash.  Some characters should be there to help Ash in his quest in some way.  Maybe one season only.  No Pablo and no Kelly.  They are not enough interesting characters IMO. (They should have kept the guy from the Bookstore and Amanda.  They were more experimented in supernatural and battle than two young adult with no background. ) 4)  Five of six episodes of 60 minutes. 5)Expand mythology in a good way 6) Get a progressive evolution of Ash as the chosen one. 7) more inter-dimensional travels. 8) More twisted story wise.

What do you hope or expect for S3?

I don't have any hope.  I expect same old thing as Season 1 and 2.  Only with more dick jokes, cheesy FX and a story full of plot holes and short cuts.  Oh...and Ash is a dad.  This seem to be very important to bring this only to tickle people's curiosity.

 

[Hurley]

The thing that surprised me the most when I read the first interviews and watched the first trailer was that they actually went more "balls to the walls" than I've ever hoped for. How they really committed to the gore, to the practical effects, the horror atmosphere, Ash's aesthetics and so on. It seemed to me that this really is the thing we've all been waiting for (and in a limited sense, it still is).

Starting with the positives, I love that there are people involved that are clearly truly passioned about Evil Dead, mostly the directors and the effects artists. I love all the practical effects, the Joseph LoDuca's score (which I enjoy maybe even more than the first season itself and I can't wait for the soundtrack for S02), I love how Bruce is enjoying returning to this role and I also like all the actors. Even though Dana's and Rey's performances are sometimes stiff, it doesn't really bother me, because it's nothing new in the world of Evil Dead, and on top of that you can really see they love the show and are doing their best.

What I don't like is… the overall approach to the story. I don't think this show necessary has bad writers, but it's more about what was agreed upon to write about. Starz basically wanted the new Californication/Blunt Talk, but with demons and gore, and Bruce and Sam didn't really have a problem with that because in my opinion (and please, fill free to prove me wrong), they like the opportunity to sabotage any chance of giving Evil Dead a coherent mythology or giving Ash a coherent character development, because for them the Evil Dead was always a genre sandbox on which they can try new things and the idea of some kind of Evil Dead lore most of the fans want just seems silly to them. I think that's the overall problem I have with this show.

I will mention one other problem, which is a smaller one, but I think nobody's really talking about it (maybe because nobody really cares). The thing is that though I can't blame the filmmakers for shooting the show on digital, because it's much easier and it's the modern consensus, I'm kinda disappointed they didn't go with 35mm film in order to make the show more cinematic and make the practical effects to shine more, because digital cameras in general make all practical effects look more fake. Even though all the effects and Deadite masks are great, they just sometimes feel too fake and rubbery on screen. I think a similar problem was very evident in the new Blade Runner 2049, which had amazing visuals, but at the same time they were so crisp and clear it actually undermined the dirty dystopian feeling of the first movie. For example recently I discovered they created a "miniature" model of Los Angeles for 2049, but in the movie you can't even tell, because it all looks so digital. (it's also the reason why the zombies in TWD look so great, because the show is shot on 16mm)

With what I was expecting or wanted/want to see… Some of you may remember that in early 2016 i wrote a fan pitch for season two, which was before we knew anything about the actual season and where it would go. You can still read it if you want, but if not, it basically focuses more on the Evil Dead lore, on introducing some elements to fill in the blanks between the show and the movies, and on creating an overall scary story with comedic elements just in it's execution. My rule of thumb was that if you read the story of Evil Dead 2, there is nothing funny in it, it's a horror story. The humour comes only in the execution, whereas when you read the AvED story, it's basically about how Ash is a retard and that's somehow funny. I'm not saying the pitch or the ideas in it are all that great, but it's a good read through of what I would prefer to see in the actual show.

 

[Muzzlehatch]

With what I was expecting or wanted/want to see… Some of you may remember that in early 2016 i wrote a fan pitch for season two, which was before we knew anything about the actual season and where it would go. You can still read it if you want, but if not, it basically focuses more on the Evil Dead lore, on introducing some elements to fill in the blanks between the show and the movies, and on creating an overall scary story with comedic elements just in it's execution. My rule of thumb was that if you read the story of Evil Dead 2, there is nothing funny in it, it's a horror story. The humour comes only in the execution, whereas when you read the AvED story, it's basically about how Ash is a retard and that's somehow funny. I'm not saying the pitch or the ideas in it are all that great, but it's a good read through of what I would prefer to see in the actual show.

I like your pitch way more than the story we got. It is rooted in happenings from the movies (Prof. Knowby's fate) or in things foreshadowed during S1 (the world being invaded by demons). And it also gives the main cast comprehensible character arcs (specially a real motivation for Ruby).

 

[MaidOfKandar]

My Initial Impressions: I was really into the trailer, but quite wary of certain leaked plot elements (Specifically the drugs/recitation portion). I was one of very, very few people somewhat disappointed by the pilot.  I was hoping for a decent mix of comedy/drama/horror, or if they were going to go the AOD route at least manage to capture a chunk of Bruce's character.

Three seasons deep, the show's been all over the map.  The things it gets right (the Cheryl thing in general; some of the SFX and gore; some of the character beats) tend to get subsumed by the show's worst points (the writing that forgets Bruce /= Ash; the lazy humor; the inconsistencies and lack of character development.  

I think a lot of the shows' problems jump forth from two issues; Sam's inactivity on the show leaving Bruce and his negative opinion of Ash mainly in charge and the fact that they're having difficulty translating the madcap spam in a can mayhem of the movies - and failing to realize that in that madcapness there was grounded, emotional character work that was done.

If I had a chance to rewrite it I would simplify the hell out of everything.  Maybe Ash has settled into the mediocrity of suburban life.  He has a wife, kids, whatever.  The evil gets unleashed by accident and the old man has to charge in while maintaining a suburban life.  Pablo can be his neighbor, Kelly can be his co-worker. 

1: Have Ruby be obsessed with something other than babies.  Seriously, we addressed this plotline, I have no idea why it's being retreaded in season 3).

2: Fish or cut bait with the Pablo/Kelly stuff.

3: Actual character development would and should stick.

4: Ash is not Bruce, Bruce is not Ash, and the humor isn't JUST from the one-liners that come from Ash.  He EARNS those one-liners, which is why they're both funny and have dramatic impact/are memetic.  Much of the humor of AOD comes from his frustration with a world that won't take him seriously and his dignity being pricked by outlandish slapsticky situations.

5: For the love of God, develop these characters.  It's a series - we're not just going to be with them for a couple of hours, but the grand total of four movies.

6: Make it significant that Ash is the only one who can survive a Deadite attack.

 

[Sutter Cane]

My Initial Impressions: I was really into the trailer, but quite wary of certain leaked plot elements (Specifically the drugs/recitation portion). I was one of very, very few people somewhat disappointed by the pilot.  I was hoping for a decent mix of comedy/drama/horror, or if they were going to go the AOD route at least manage to capture a chunk of Bruce's character.

Three seasons deep, the show's been all over the map.  The things it gets right (the Cheryl thing in general; some of the SFX and gore; some of the character beats) tend to get subsumed by the show's worst points (the writing that forgets Bruce /= Ash; the lazy humor; the inconsistencies and lack of character development.  

I think a lot of the shows' problems jump forth from two issues; Sam's inactivity on the show leaving Bruce and his negative opinion of Ash mainly in charge and the fact that they're having difficulty translating the madcap spam in a can mayhem of the movies - and failing to realize that in that madcapness there was grounded, emotional character work that was done.

If I had a chance to rewrite it I would simplify the hell out of everything.  Maybe Ash has settled into the mediocrity of suburban life.  He has a wife, kids, whatever.  The evil gets unleashed by accident and the old man has to charge in while maintaining a suburban life.  Pablo can be his neighbor, Kelly can be his co-worker. 

1: Have Ruby be obsessed with something other than babies.  Seriously, we addressed this plotline, I have no idea why it's being retreaded in season 3).

2: Fish or cut bait with the Pablo/Kelly stuff.

3: Actual character development would and should stick.

4: Ash is not Bruce, Bruce is not Ash, and the humor isn't JUST from the one-liners that come from Ash.  He EARNS those one-liners, which is why they're both funny and have dramatic impact/are memetic.  Much of the humor of AOD comes from his frustration with a world that won't take him seriously and his dignity being pricked by outlandish slapsticky situations.

5: For the love of God, develop these characters.  It's a series - we're not just going to be with them for a couple of hours, but the grand total of four movies.

6: Make it significant that Ash is the only one who can survive a Deadite attack.

1. I think for Ruby's character, they should have stick with the original idea that Ruby is a Knowby.  Not a dark one.  This idea of Ruby as a dark one seem to be a short cut to bring some kind of twist at the end of Season 1...But it didn't work very well.  In season 2 we saw Ruby more as a sidekick and it was alright but fell into a mess again at the end of Season 2.  In fact, the end of season 2 was a big reset button.  

Keeping Ruby as a knowby could have bring more mythology explanation and knowledge about the book and which direction to go. The idea to hunt down Ash in season 1 and then become a sidekick in S2 was a good idea...But as a main and good character.  

4.  Yes Ash is not Bruce and Bruce is not Ash.  They totally f**d up the character because of that.  I think they really wanted to mix "My name is Bruce" in the process.  Which is a bad idea.  Sorry Bruce fans,  MNIB is entertaining for a Bruce Campbell fan, but definitively not really a good movie.

 

[DyD]

Keeping Ruby as a knowby could have bring more mythology explanation and knowledge about the book and which direction to go. The idea to hunt down Ash in season 1 and then become a sidekick in S2 was a good idea...But as a main and good character.  

You know, they could have done that with Dark One Ruby too. They could've done it even more easily, actually, since they explicitly state that not only is she a Dark One, she also wrote the damn book (a revelation that amounted to absolutely nothing so far, if I may add). But that would require doing something - anything at all - with her character. Ruby was this mysterious character at the beginning of season 1, but halfway through it she becomes a completely different, still mysterious, character. Then in season 2, they turned her into yet another completely different character. Now it seems she's become this fourth character, and so far, they've done precisely squat to properly develop any of these different Rubies. We're three seasons in and we're still not sure exactly who she is or what she wants.

Concerning the questions posed by the thread, I've stated my opinion several times in the episode and general discussion threads for each season and I'm sure all of you must be well aware of where I stand, so I'm not gonna waste both my time and yours by saying it all again. All I have to say at the moment is that I've read all of the posts in here so far and that I'm pretty much on the same page as the rest of you. I'll simply undersign all that's been said.

 

[Sutter Cane]

Keeping Ruby as a knowby could have bring more mythology explanation and knowledge about the book and which direction to go. The idea to hunt down Ash in season 1 and then become a sidekick in S2 was a good idea...But as a main and good character.  

You know, they could have done that with Dark One Ruby too. They could've done it even more easily, actually, since they explicitly state that not only is she a Dark One, she also wrote the damn book (a revelation that amounted to absolutely nothing so far, if I may add). But that would require doing something - anything at all - with her character. Ruby was this mysterious character at the beginning of season 1, but halfway through it she becomes a completely different, still mysterious, character. Then in season 2, they turned her into yet another completely different character. Now it seems she's become this fourth character, and so far, they've done precisely squat to properly develop any of these different Rubies. We're three seasons in and we're still not sure exactly who she is or what she wants.

Concerning the questions posed by the thread, I've stated my opinion several times in the episode and general discussion threads for each season and I'm sure all of you must be well aware of where I stand, so I'm not gonna waste both my time and yours by saying it all again. All I have to say at the moment is that I've read all of the posts in here so far and that I'm pretty much on the same page as the rest of you. I'll simply undersign all that's been said.

Yes they could have done that with Dark one Ruby too.  But since she wrote the book, there's no real challenge.  She already know how to defeat Evil.    It just make everything dull.  A character too powerful remove the magic and the apprenticeship of a weaker character.  Even if she lose her power, she still have all the knowledge.


But I just thought, why not keeping the tradition and give more background to the Knowby family and history. (I mean their ancestors could have been demon  hunters, just like the Belmont in Castlevania)  This could have give so much dept to the mythology with characters that we already know.  It could have help to establish the rules, demons hierarchy etc...This is a good way to explain a situation without explaining it.  You discover at the same time the character is analyzing a particular situation. 

They destroyed all the set up made in Evil Dead 2.  Instead, they made professor knowby an asshole in S2.

 

[DyD]

@Sutter Cane - Yeah, I think now I get what you were trying to say there. I agree 100% that she was a much more interesting character when she was a Knowby. I have no idea why they decided to change such an integral part of who the character was halfway through the season. I'm not sure if I'm misremembering here, but wasn't there a scene in season 1 where someone actually says she's a Knowby? Am I imagining things? Then by the end of the season she suddenly isn't a Knowby anymore. That confused the hell out of me when I first saw it. And that's another thing that makes me think that so called "five year plan" they had for the show wasn't actually that well planned. I'm also in complete agreement with you on their treatment of Prof. Knowby.

 

[MaidOfKandar]

The sad thing about Ruby is that we could've had interesting story opportunities for either direction.  She could've been a Knowby and had a built-in reason for hating Ash and wanting him dead - or just wanting to reclaim the book and minimize damage.  

If she'd been an old one, she could've been awesomely all powerful and cool.

The problem is they realized making her an old one overpowered her, so they had to somehow make her uncertain about the magic she herself had created.  It ultimately makes no sense.

 

[Surtur]

Resurrecting an old topic because it seems even more relevant now, midway through season 3 and facing the brink of Evil Dead extinction.

Being new here, my opinions as a whole haven't been too widely spread so I'll wrap it all up in this neat little package. Like many I suppose, I saw Army of Darkness first and loved it, but I really felt like it was a kid's movie. The humor was funny but I thought a good portion of it was cheesy, same with the skeletons fighting at the end and CLEARLY getting thrown by another off screen, but I've grown to love all this since. I then went back to the first Evil Dead, which had me completely confused how the hell we got into medieval times, and why Ash is named Ashley and he's quite pitiful. Finally arriving upon Evil Dead 2 and I see what the fuss is about. THIS is the film right here, the holy grail of all I've ever loved growing up, horror comedies and dark comedies. This movie was so good that it made me go back and love the other two films, which I still find quite inferior to ED2, even if I ignore all their flaws. The remake comes along in 2013 and I felt rebellious and angry that they would dare try and remake The Evil Dead. Okay, the film is actually quite good, but I really want a proper Evil Dead continuation.

Long story short-ish, I was incredibly excited for the show. So excited in fact, I may have, and still continue to ignore its flaws. I just finished a re-watch of season 1 and it is actually better than I remember, especially the wonderful first episode. As horror fans, we are so often forced to ignore elements of movies that are absolutely atrocious. Is there a single good actor in all of the Friday the 13th franchise? Has any of it ever made sense at all? I expect quite a bit more of the ED franchise anyway but I don't think it has committed quite the sins of some other major horror films.

My biggest complaint first is I would like it to be a bit more serious and horror-leaning, but I think that is all of our dreams, for it to be Evil Dead 2. I really enjoyed when Evil Ash killed Amanda in the cabin and he says "now that's what I call cleavage." It felt appropriate for the moment, taunting her after killing her. I have also never laughed harder in the series than the S2 premiere when Ash cuts the deadite's head and arms off and the torso corpse slips in the puddle of blood. It was subtle but I laughed very hard. I'm also not too fond of Kelly and Pablo at times, but that again is a small price to pay. They aren't horrible by any means but the acting is inconsistent and they don't have much of a point except fleshing out the sitcom scenario where Ash has people to bounce off of.

I will also defend the characterization of Ash, and no I'm not trying to change anybody's mind on it. I feel like a person as extreme as Ash, who can fight literal and mental demons with little remorse, cut bodies to pieces without blinking an eye, etc is going to be an extreme person in all facets of life, including alcohol abuse, humor, and sexual proclivities. Is it NECESSARY? No, but it is there so I am at peace with it.

In the end I am happy with the show and I will be a bit distraught when it's cancelled. I would love another movie but that is looking less and less likely every day. I think the television format was going to be hard from the get-go due to the actual amount of substance needed to fill 5 hours per season, whereas we were able to dissect and obsess over the trilogy for several decades before. Now suddenly we're thrust into Ash's personal life and eccentricities. It's funny some of you prefer the apocalyptic ending to AoD, because I always saw the S-Mart scene as laying the framework for what the show would become.

 

[EvilDeadFan89]

Before I begin, I wrote this opinion piece months ago and just never got around to posting it here. Now that the show has been canceled, I think now is a good time as anyone to post this; better late than never!

Also, I just want to say to everyone, especially Panos, what a huge relief it is to hear what I’ve been thinking all this time! So thank you everybody! For the longest time, I thought I was alone thinking how dissatisfied I am with the show (and that’s putting it lightly!)

What do you like? What not so much?

Honestly, Ash vs. Evil Dead has nothing going for it for me to “like” it. I don’t mind being the first to say that I hate what they did. So much so, I stopped watching the show after the first season. I was completely disappointed and really pissed with how they were handling a trilogy that’s so personal to me and love so very much. I don’t even consider AvED canon with the films. Hell, I think the 2013 reboot/remake is 10 times better than the show in every way.

Just because Starz, Bruce, and Sam consider Army Of Darkness the most popular of the trilogy doesn’t mean it should be used as a starting point on how the tone of the show should go; they don’t even have the rights to it!

The humor is dialed up to 11 to the point of stupidity resulting in an Ash with no redeemable qualities and who is painfully dumb to watch from episode to episode. It’s almost as if Bruce is doing a caricature of the character, and not a very good one at that. I totally agree with Sutter Cane:

“Yes Ash is not Bruce and Bruce is not Ash. They totally f**d up the character because of that. I think they really wanted to mix "My name is Bruce" in the process. Which is a bad idea. Sorry Bruce fans, MNIB is entertaining for a Bruce Campbell fan, but definitively not really a good movie.”

It’s like Batman & Robin with George Clooney playing Bruce Wayne/Batman. It was just George being himself in a Batman suit; he never got into the character. Bruce Campbell is guilty doing the same thing here. I really don’t see Ash here, I just see Bruce doing dumb things for the sake of “entertainment” or lack there of.

I almost shut off the show before the opening credits of the pilot! The major breaking point for me was Ash smoking pot and inadvertently unleashing the evil from the book. I never thought of Ash from the films doing pot. What made the first two films work so well was that while the characters didn’t have necessarily a “backstory”, you could as an audience member incorporate yourself into the characters which made it scarier when the evil is unleashed. Long story short, I don’t smoke pot, so I never saw Ash doing it either. When they showed him smoking pot, I was definitely alienated as a long time fan. From there on out, the first season was more of me rolling my eyes than actually enjoying it; the show was hitting every wrong note that they possibly could. Plus, the copyrighted music really threw me off, it never was part of the films, so why add it now? To be more contemporary?

Another breaking point is the poor dialogue, and it’s mostly the mishandling of how Ash speaks; it feels forced coming from Bruce. It’s as if the writers looked at some Army Of Darkness comics and figured that’s how he talks; like a really bad knockoff of Jack Burton from Big Trouble In Little China. I remember seeing a gif from Season 2 where Ash got his hand back. What you would think would be a emotional moment for the character is ruined by his dialogue: “ Brand spankin’ new hand. Or a brand new spankin’ hand?” I don’t watch Evil Dead for dumb humor.

I remember this quote from Bruce: “Any time a writer thinks he has all the answers on how someone should talk or react or end a scene, it’s a spontaneity-killer”. This statement is more complex than it appears to be because it’s not a blanket statement. Case in point, look at the character of Ellen Ripley from the Alien series. Sigourney Weaver stated during the shooting of Alien 3 that there’s very few people that can write Ripley correctly, namely the producers and James Cameron, but what she goes to say is that most times the character is written as a “gym instructor” when her dialogue should be written as more “aloof”. What’s important to take away from Sigourney is that she cares about the character and how she talks and how realistic and close it is to her character as much as possible. I feel Bruce does not care in that regard because there’s a paycheck at the end; he doesn’t care about Ash the way Sigourney cares about Ripley.

When the Season 2 trailer came out, it was more of the same thing that I hated from the first season. Everything was played for laughs and not horror, which I’m in total agreement with as to why the show never works. I only caught a few scenes from season 2 and that was mostly the fight between Ash and Henrietta. It had potential, I’ll give it that, but the stupid gross humor of boils and the “slapstick” of Henrietta slamming her foot onto Ash’s foot really took me out of scene entirely. It never reaches what made their original fight in Evil Dead 2 so great, which in retrospect, I’m glad it never did. Nothing should top Evil Dead 2. It feels like they were trying to take elements of other “Evil Dead-like” films, primarily Stuart Gordon’s Re-Animator and Peter Jackson’s Dead Alive and threw it into the show hoping it would work. For me, it doesn’t. To sum up season 2, just look at the scene where Ash has his head up a dead guy’s ass and Ash is yelling about his predicament. That’s all I need to know about season 2 for me to know that I would hate it just as much as the first season; it just shows how far they have fallen with the character and the property respectively.

As for season three, I shut off the trailer when they revealed Ash has a daughter; talk about a tired cliche! I’ve never liked when any movie or show does this. Tremors or Indiana Jones anybody? This is another season I’m not watching. There’s no point at all for the whole daughter element. You know they’re grasping at straws to find fresh ideas when they add “A child that the main character never knew about.”

Overall, I think it’s sad that the Evil Dead video games and the some of the comics do a far better job in continuation and execution than AvED. It’s also sad when Stan Against Evil , which is NOT a ripoff, but more of a nod to the films, is by far the better show hands down; I’m actually glad that SAE is being renewed for a third season. But, I’ll be the first one to say that I hope there is no season 4 of AvED, the stupidity needs to end.

 

[DyD]

Honestly, Ash vs. Evil Dead has nothing going for it for me to “like” it. I don’t mind being the first to say that I hate what they did. So much so, I stopped watching the show after the first season. I was completely disappointed and really pissed with how they were handling a trilogy that’s so personal to me and love so very much. I don’t even consider AvED canon with the films. Hell, I think the 2013 reboot/remake is 10 times better than the show in every way.

Just because Starz, Bruce, and Sam consider Army Of Darkness the most popular of the trilogy doesn’t mean it should be used as a starting point on how the tone of the show should go; they don’t even have the rights to it!

The humor is dialed up to 11 to the point of stupidity resulting in an Ash with no redeemable qualities and who is painfully dumb to watch from episode to episode. It’s almost as if Bruce is doing a caricature of the character, and not a very good one at that. I totally agree with Sutter Cane: It’s like Batman & Robin with George Clooney playing Bruce Wayne/Batman. It was just George being himself in a Batman suit; he never got into the character. Bruce Campbell is guilty doing the same thing here. I really don’t see Ash here, I just see Bruce doing dumb things for the sake of “entertainment” or lack there of.

I almost shut off the show before the opening credits of the pilot! The major breaking point for me was Ash smoking pot and inadvertently unleashing the evil from the book. I never thought of Ash from the films doing pot. What made the first two films work so well was that while the characters didn’t have necessarily a “backstory”, you could as an audience member incorporate yourself into the characters which made it scarier when the evil is unleashed. Long story short, I don’t smoke pot, so I never saw Ash doing it either. When they showed him smoking pot, I was definitely alienated as a long time fan. From there on out, the first season was more of me rolling my eyes than actually enjoying it; the show was hitting every wrong note that they possibly could. Plus, the copyrighted music really threw me off, it never was part of the films, so why add it now? To be more contemporary?

Another breaking point is the poor dialogue, and it’s mostly the mishandling of how Ash speaks; it feels forced coming from Bruce. It’s as if the writers looked at some Army Of Darkness comics and figured that’s how he talks; like a really bad knockoff of Jack Burton from Big Trouble In Little China. I remember seeing a gif from Season 2 where Ash got his hand back. What you would think would be a emotional moment for the character is ruined by his dialogue: “ Brand spankin’ new hand. Or a brand new spankin’ hand?” I don’t watch Evil Dead for dumb humor.

I remember this quote from Bruce: “Any time a writer thinks he has all the answers on how someone should talk or react or end a scene, it’s a spontaneity-killer”. This statement is more complex than it appears to be because it’s not a blanket statement. Case in point, look at the character of Ellen Ripley from the Alien series. Sigourney Weaver stated during the shooting of Alien 3 that there’s very few people that can write Ripley correctly, namely the producers and James Cameron, but what she goes to say is that most times the character is written as a “gym instructor” when her dialogue should be written as more “aloof”. What’s important to take away from Sigourney is that she cares about the character and how she talks and how realistic and close it is to her character as much as possible. I feel Bruce does not care in that regard because there’s a paycheck at the end; he doesn’t care about Ash the way Sigourney cares about Ripley.

When the Season 2 trailer came out, it was more of the same thing that I hated from the first season. Everything was played for laughs and not horror, which I’m in total agreement with as to why the show never works. I only caught a few scenes from season 2 and that was mostly the fight between Ash and Henrietta. It had potential, I’ll give it that, but the stupid gross humor of boils and the “slapstick” of Henrietta slamming her foot onto Ash’s foot really took me out of scene entirely. It never reaches what made their original fight in Evil Dead 2 so great, which in retrospect, I’m glad it never did. Nothing should top Evil Dead 2. It feels like they were trying to take elements of other “Evil Dead-like” films, primarily Stuart Gordon’s Re-Animator and Peter Jackson’s Dead Alive and threw it into the show hoping it would work. For me, it doesn’t. To sum up season 2, just look at the scene where Ash has his head up a dead guy’s ass and Ash is yelling about his predicament. That’s all I need to know about season 2 for me to know that I would hate it just as much as the first season; it just shows how far they have fallen with the character and the property respectively.

You're not the first to say you hate what they did. A lot of people here were disappointed by it and I also hate nearly everything they did right up until episode 7 of the 3rd season. I agree with most of what you said there, specially about Ash's characterization, the style of humor and not taking the horror bits seriously enough.

As for season three, I shut off the trailer when they revealed Ash has a daughter; talk about a tired cliche! I’ve never liked when any movie or show does this. Tremors or Indiana Jones anybody? This is another season I’m not watching. There’s no point at all for the whole daughter element. You know they’re grasping at straws to find fresh ideas when they add “A child that the main character never knew about.”

I was in the same camp as you about the daughter subplot before watching the 3rd season, but in the end it was one of the best decisions they could've made. The inclusion of that element actually allowed them to take big steps in fixing Ash's character a bit, making him more focused, responsible, serious and heroic. It gave him something to lose, which in turn made him a common man on a mission he never asked for once again, more human, relatable and less of a caricature. Even if you don't really wanna watch the 3rd season, I'd suggest you try watching at least the last 4 episodes. They still have their flaws and the weight of the damage done during the first two and a half seasons is still felt, but they did take major steps in fixing Ash's character, the tone, the atmosphere and the delivery of dialogue and humor in those last few episodes. When you watch them separately, it almost feels like a completely different show. It was still not enough for me to want to consider Ash vs. Evil Dead a part of my personal series canon (to me, Ash's story still ends when he wakes up in post-apocalyptic England in the original Army of Darkness ending and I look at the show as a separate thing, the same way I look at the comics) and you might still feel it was too little too late, but those last 4 episodes are actually a whole of a lot better than anything that came before them. Ash's portrayal and the overall tone is actually a lot closer to what they were in Evil Dead 2. I still think the show sucks for the most of part, but those last episodes were actually a lot of fun and gave us a glimpse of what the show could've been. It's just frustrating and disappointing it took them so long to take those steps towards fixing it.

 

[Panos]

Also, I just want to say to everyone, especially Panos, what a huge relief it is to hear what I’ve been thinking all this time! So thank you everybody! For the longest time, I thought I was alone thinking how dissatisfied I am with the show (and that’s putting it lightly!)

I honestly felt the same way at some point, but i have seen more and more people make their distaste for the show apparent especially during S3/end of S2

But, I’ll be the first one to say that I hope there is no season 4 of AvED, the stupidity needs to end.

Well the show was cancelled..

 

[EvilDeadFan89]

You're not the first to say you hate what they did. A lot of people here were disappointed by it and I also hate nearly everything they did right up until episode 7 of the 3rd season.

It’s just a figure of speech. You look at social media and review sites like rotten tomatoes and imdb, AvED has a high score and well praised. Anybody who didn’t like the show looked like they were in the minority. I mean, look at how many review sites now are upset that the show was canceled!

I was in the same camp as you about the daughter subplot before watching the 3rd season, but in the end it was one of the best decisions they could've made. The inclusion of that element actually allowed them to take big steps in fixing Ash's character a bit, making him more focused, responsible, serious and heroic. It gave him something to lose, which in turn made him a common man on a mission he never asked for once again, more human, relatable and less of a caricature. Even if you don't really wanna watch the 3rd season, I'd suggest you try watching at least the last 4 episodes. They still have their flaws and the weight of the damage done during the first two and a half seasons is still felt, but they did take major steps in fixing Ash's character, the tone, the atmosphere and the delivery of dialogue and humor in those last few episodes. When you watch them separately, it almost feels like a completely different show. It was still not enough for me to want to consider Ash vs. Evil Dead a part of my personal series canon (to me, Ash's story still ends when he wakes up in post-apocalyptic England in the original Army of Darkness ending and I look at the show as a separate thing, the same way I look at the comics) and you might still feel it was too little too late, but those last 4 episodes are actually a whole of a lot better than anything that came before them.

You have me intrigued, but I still think it’s a bad tv cliche though. I’ll keep what you said, in mind, when/if it goes up on Netflix or something, but I’m glad you don’t see it as canon either.
For me, Ash’s story ends at the end of Evil Dead 2; he’s fulfilled the prophecy and has become the Hero From The Sky. While a somewhat tragic ending, he is treated like a Demi-God but doesn’t want it. Brilliant stuff.
As I’ve gotten older, Army Of Darkness doesn’t really fit with the previous films as far as Ash’s characterization goes. If you listen to the commentary on the Director’s Cut, Sam Raimi admits that it was a mistake to make Ash as stupid as they did. He’s not stupid in the first two, I’ve always hated the change in character. While it got me into the other Evil Dead films, Army of Darkness works better as a stand-alone picture and not a sequel to Evil Dead 2. For me, Army Of Darkness is a nice “What-if”, but I understand and respect why you like the original ending to AOD.

Well the show was cancelled..

I did say I wrote this months ago (back in February, I believe) and never posted it, until yesterday.

 

[Sutter Cane]

I'm currently watching again the entire series...It's a bit weird to get back on the first episodes...

I have watched more than half of the season 1 for now. I still think that S1 fall short after the 3rd episode. All that Brujo psychedelic acid trip was technically not right. It should have been done differently....I mean, more occult, not hippies and 70'. Too much daylight episodes until Ash reach the cabin again... (I mean the restaurant episode should have been more efficient at evening with a Retro restaurant style. with neon signs)

Despite the dumb way Ash awaken the evil in episode 1, Sam Raimi still shows up his skill. Technically the suspense is there. (There's a lot of supsense in episode 1 compare to the rest of the series) It's very well done. a lots of camera and light tricks. (Focus, the torch light which turn around etc...) Sam know how to create atmosphere and prepare the viewer for the worst case scenario. Unfortunately, this is missing a lot on the series. This is also a proof that a 40 minutes episodes was the best fitting for the series.

 

[Surtur]

But, I’ll be the first one to say that I hope there is no season 4 of AvED, the stupidity needs to end.

Obviously it’s cancelled and over, but I never understood this sentiment. So you don’t like a show, it should end? It happens across all fandoms and mediums, you said you never watched past season 1, why not just ignore it and forget about it instead of root for it to fail? All the people working on the show had jobs, there were plenty of fans and people that watched, what kind of sadistic fantasy to watch that all go away?

 

[Kevin]

Obviously it’s cancelled and over, but I never understood this sentiment. So you don’t like a show, it should end? It happens across all fandoms and mediums, you said you never watched past season 1, why not just ignore it and forget about it instead of root for it to fail? All the people working on the show had jobs, there were plenty of fans and people that watched, what kind of sadistic fantasy to watch that all go away?

I see this everywhere and I never get it. This happens all the time for shows like Gotham and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Those shows have some loyal fans so there are always people saying sometimes daily, "I hope this show gets canceled soon" and then post it in the threads for either the show or topics about shows. It's ridiculous. Essentially:

"I don't like thing and therefore I don't want anyone else to be able to enjoy thing." A childish selfish mentality that should warrant a warning in my opinion. You don't have to like a television show but telling fans of said show that you hope it gets canceled is very much a form of trolling and should not be accepted anywhere.

 

[Surtur]

@Kevin Obviously one person liking something and another disliking it is a difference of opinion at that’s what we’re here for. I’m interested to hear why people don’t like something I do, but not watching 2/3 of the series and hoping it gets cancelled is just asinine. Well it did get cancelled so that poster must be overjoyed.