logic holes in end of season 2

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ive been a fan of the evil dead since the beginning of the movies, but the end of season 2 really left me unsatisfied and confused.  can someone please explain these confusing points and plot holes?

1) baal and ash made a blood pact, with certain conditions as to the loser/winner consequences, for their fight.  baal lost, but ruby and the book did NOT go to hell.  why not?

2) we SAW the book fall thru the floor, into hell...but then there it is later out by knowby's vw.  how did it get there?

3) when baal said to ruby, "what have you done?", did she say "honor the deal" meaning he had to go to hell like he agreed, or did she say "altered the deal", meaning he was going to hell but she wasn't?  it was hard to tell what she said but I think it was the first one.

4) if baal and ash made a blood pact with the book, how could ruby change it later?

5) how did ash's dad just show up in the cabin for no reason, and how did his body change into a chainsaw after he drowned?

6) pretty sure a chainsaw wouldn't run, especially on the first pull, after being submerged in water.

7) were they in 1980s elk grove at the end, or back in their correct time?  either way, why would everyone assume he was some big hero?

8) going back in time and avoiding the whole thing made everyone come back to life...so where was the sheriff?

9) presumably Kelly's dad is alive again, as well as Pablo's uncle.  no mention of them yet.  and why isn't ash's dad, sister, and buddy chet back to life?  and his old girlfriend, and all the people from that first cabin trip, should all be alive again.  but no word of them.  makes NO sense.

10) not once but TWICE ash's dad tried to impart vital knowledge just before he died, both times unsuccessfully.  so we're left hanging on what that info could be.

11) how could they get back to the future without the book?

12) how could ruby get back to the future, since we SAW the book go to hell, so she couldn't use it to cast a time spell?

Thanks.
 
In a nutshell: This show is a mess, the writers suck, Craig DiGregorio was an incompetent showrunner and the behind the scenes creative battle between him and Rob Tapert certainly didn't help. Sorry, but those are the only explanations at the moment. Anything else is just conjecture or crazy fan theories. There is no logic to be found here.
 
Mainly just conjecture as Dyd says but:

1) Ruby said that she would alter the deal. I suspect avoiding hell was part of that. Remember her voicing her indignation to Kelly about their live song aged with to feed the male egos of Ash and Baal?

2) Possibly due to Ruby's pact (although I doubt it. I'd think she'd want the book with her) or the book itself arranged things this way. It's had a mind of it's own lately.

3) She said "Honor the deal!" although I found that scene rather confusing too.

4) Ruby is the author of the book ( or one of them, anyway. Im Not convinced she wrote the entire thing as she claimed in series 1) so I think she could rewrite the pact if need be.

5) Now that scene really confused me. I think he was actually supposed to be the spirit of Brock, although he was able to take physical form for some reason. I guess if Knowby could come back in ED2, then so can Brock. I think the cabin location is a particularly soft place ins time and space, possibly due to the incantation first occurring there. Or maybe the presence of the Necronomicon is etnouvh. How he magicked up a chainsaw, I do not know. I guess he isn't bound by time any more and was maybe able to transport the chainsaw from another time period in Ash's history.

That scene was deus ex machina at its worst, in my opinion.

6) I didn't quite buy that either. It's a magically infused chainsaw! Yeah, right. I think the plot had got so silly at that point, one more thing doesn't make much difference.

7) They had returned to their own time as evidenced by Linda's presence. (unless this is an illusion, which I think is a distinct possibility. Some had the idea this might actually be hell...) I guess they told the town folk what has happened and it was evidenced by all the deaths stopping.

Of course, if young Ash had not read from the book, one would have thought the events would not have occurred in this timeline in the first place. Maybe what Ruby said about a constant present is the answer to this... a way of getting past paradoxes.

It really doesn't make much sense.

8 and 9)Arguably the people should never have died, but that's not what they're going with here. Those dead remain dead, apart from Pablo who was saying as a condition of the pact should Ash defeat Baal. I guess the alterations to the last stop any more things happening for a while, but don't undo everything. Things must have happened for alterations to occur in the first place is something. It makes sense less than most time travel stories.

10) Yes we are. I found that particularly frustrating that second time. I wonder if this is an explanation that we were supposed to get, but ended up altered by rewrites. I hope we get an explanation in series 3.

11) I think that either one of them remembered the incantation, or Pablo knew it due to his previous link to the boom. Maybe he still had that tatoo. Alternatively, maybe it was something else in the pact due to Ash defeating Baal.

I wish they shown something, but anyway. Not the worst plot hole in this episode.

12) Maybe she remembered it. Or maybe she never travelled through time, and this is the present day Ruby who has a different part. She still retains the hairstyle of 80s Ruby though... Maybe he followed the gang back through the wormhole.
 
The only explanation that's even remotely acceptable is that they're still in the 80's and the entire ending scene was an elaborate illusion the group is in, but that still doesn't feel all that satisfying to me. It still doesn't cover most of the plot holes in the episode and the book being found in the present kinda puts the kibosh on that, so...

Concerning the big secret Brock had to tell Ash, DiGregorio said in his interview that it was indeed one of the things scrapped from script when they rewrote everything, but I don't think he revealed what it was supposed to be. If I'm not mistaken, he was talking about Kelly turning into Ash's daughter when he said that, so if the big secret had anything to do with that... It still doesn't make any sense.
 
I wondered about that, but I don't know how Brock could have known about that. After death he might have access to that information, but not that first time.

Then again, with time travel shenanigans, who knows what else will/did occur...
 
RE 4: Ruby and Baal apparently co-authored the book, though the show has been ridiculously vague about that fact.  

5: I think it was Baal trying to manipulate Ash, honestly.   The heavy Bock-is-Obi-Wan parallel going on there makes me wonder tho.

8 & 9: And where was Lacey and everyone else, TBH.  That's the worst logic hole the show has.
 
well, clearly a really badly written episode with all kinds of plot holes, maybes, what-ifs, and loose threads, with nothing being logical or clear cut.  very unsatisfying to me, but at least I wasn't the only one wondering what the hell is going on.  I was kind of hoping they'd bring everything to a nice, neat conclusion and season 3 wouldn't be necessary, because I don't want to see the quality of the story line start to suffer with too much elongation, and the story becoming repetitive.  but it looks like that's where its heading.

thanks, everybody.
 
I think everyone was left with more questions than answers after this finale, and I'm not sure I can... or want to try to answer any of the question so our only hope is that most of them will be answered in season 3. We shall see how things go when they start shooting again this Spring and into Summer, and I'm interested to see what changes come from the new showrunner.
 
They made it up as they went along. You are all putting more thought in it than they did.
It's a show about a guy with a chainsaw hand, so therefore therefore anything can happen with no internal logic whatsoever was the excuse/reason we were given.
 
I did find the way Baal took over Pablo a bit of a contradiction to past episodes. When Baal first appeared it was shown clearly lthat he literally skins the victim and covers himself in their skin. (Who thinks this up. Dear me!)

Yet with Pablo he didn't really have a chance to do that. It seemed to be more of a spiritual thing, a possession of Pablo's actual body. I suppose he could infect him, and grew inside replacing the flesh? He was certainly in skin wearing mode again when he revealed himself. I confess I didn't see that one coming.
 
@Mardeadite - I think the whole Pablo possession is supposed to be simply an illusion on Baal's part period.
 
Anthrax said:
They made it up as they went along. You are all putting more thought in it than they did.
It's a show about a guy with a chainsaw hand, so therefore therefore anything can happen with no internal logic whatsoever was the excuse/reason we were given.

ha ha ha, yes, made it up as they went along...that seems pretty accurate.

and yeah, I seem to remember reading an interview where the guy basically said that, that it's a show about a guy with a chainsaw hand so anything goes.  that's...not good.  if that's their thinking, it shows they don't take the story, or us fans, seriously.  I don't want to continue to emotionally invest if they're just going to throw shit at the wall to see what sticks.  the story needs to have SOME sense, SOME logic, or it's just crap.  I expect better from raimi...he's no longer the rookie director just starting out.
 
duke henry said:
I expect better from raimi...he's no longer the rookie director just starting out.

I said this before, but Sam is not as involved with the show as a lot of people seem to think he is. I think the extent of his creative involvement only went as far as writing an outline/first draft for the pilot and then directing it. After that, all of the creation came from DiGregorio and his writers. I'm not even sure if Raimi actually has any say in what they're doing on the show. It seems to me it's up to Bruce and Rob to either approve of things or not, but they don't actually come up with any of it. The problem is that Bruce seems to have a really weird view of what Ash and Evil Dead should be and Rob let DiGregorio run free until halfway through the second season, when they started having some creative differences disputes that led to a lot of the issues in the finale. Other than that, I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. Hopefully the changes in the creative staff for season 3 will bring improvements to the show. To me, it's their last chance. Three strikes and I'm out.
 
IMO, Tapert's biggest flaw is that he seemingly let DiGregario go on this long running the show the way he was when even the season 1 commentary betrays the fact that he disliked the direction it was going in. Did they just give him a pass because Bruce obviously liked his ideas?
 
MaidOfKandar said:
IMO, Tapert's biggest flaw is that he seemingly let DiGregario go on this long running the show the way he was when even the season 1 commentary betrays the fact that he disliked the direction it was going in.  Did they just give him a pass because Bruce obviously liked his ideas?

I think more likely they signed a deal with Starz and didn't have as much creative control as they claimed (otherwise why would they as ACTORS be rewriting and not following the scripts even in Season 1?) and that was more about selling it to the fans and doing their job to get behind it and make it a success.

Bruce said in his twitter not-so long ago that he didn't really want to do the head up the butt gag in 202 but he couldn't oppose the 'town hall' or something like that. When you look at that show Patrick Stewart is on it's pretty clear they are doing the same thing to him.

What allowed them to take control was tanking ratings I'm guessing. Behind the scenes there must have been some kinda "we told ya" to upper management.
 
Actually, it's pretty common for actors to ad-lib and improv on-set if the director allows it (and since Sam encouraged improv on the set of all three original movies, there's no way Bruce or Sam or Rob would disapprove of that idea). While I think it's true that they have somewhat less creative freedom than they insist they do and that the insertion of DiGregario into the show is sort of proof that Starz is not the land of milk and honey they've insisted it is.

I definitely smell some kind of higher up interference and I think the ratings landslide over this season definitely has something to do with them replacing a non-friend with a fiend. Either way, they somehow lost over 200k people in their cumes from last season to this one, which is not a very good sign.
 
ive been a fan of the evil dead since the beginning of the movies, but the end of season 2 really left me unsatisfied and confused. can someone please explain these confusing points and plot holes?

1) baal and ash made a blood pact, with certain conditions as to the loser/winner consequences, for their fight. baal lost, but ruby and the book did NOT go to hell. why not?

2) we SAW the book fall thru the floor, into hell...but then there it is later out by knowby's vw. how did it get there?

3) when baal said to ruby, "what have you done?", did she say "honor the deal" meaning he had to go to hell like he agreed, or did she say "altered the deal", meaning he was going to hell but she wasn't? it was hard to tell what she said but I think it was the first one.

4) if baal and ash made a blood pact with the book, how could ruby change it later?

5) how did ash's dad just show up in the cabin for no reason, and how did his body change into a chainsaw after he drowned?

6) pretty sure a chainsaw wouldn't run, especially on the first pull, after being submerged in water.

7) were they in 1980s elk grove at the end, or back in their correct time? either way, why would everyone assume he was some big hero?

8) going back in time and avoiding the whole thing made everyone come back to life...so where was the sheriff?

9) presumably Kelly's dad is alive again, as well as Pablo's uncle. no mention of them yet. and why isn't ash's dad, sister, and buddy chet back to life? and his old girlfriend, and all the people from that first cabin trip, should all be alive again. but no word of them. makes NO sense.

10) not once but TWICE ash's dad tried to impart vital knowledge just before he died, both times unsuccessfully. so we're left hanging on what that info could be.

11) how could they get back to the future without the book?

12) how could ruby get back to the future, since we SAW the book go to hell, so she couldn't use it to cast a time spell?

Thanks.


I know I'm really late in replying to this (you're probably dead by now), but I'll give it a go.
The series has finished at 3 seasons and I'd like to talk about it:

1) Ruby removed herself from the deal because she wasn't going to risk everything for some macho-contest of egos. The book may have went to Hell, as it fell through the cracks into the fire, but it does return in 2013.

2) "The book works in mysterious ways." (my dig on religion). The book comes back because it was either written out of the deal (like Ruby herself) and simply fell into the ground and rooted its way up for those 30 years, or it needed to come back to fulfill the prophecy/destiny that is written within. I think there is more than one version of the book. When Pablo throws it into Hell in 2013, another version rises up to take it's place (I theorize). So in this new timeline created, Pablo is (in every timeline) destined to throw the book of the dead into Hell, causing another version to take it's place. Whatever version of the book was used in this new timeline is now in Hell and perhaps pushes the other book (that went to Hell in 1982) back to Earth. The other book being from the cabin in Tennessee that Ash and friends go to since the cabin in Michigan burned down in this timeline. In the first The Evil Dead film, they are in Tennessee. It's unknown if it's still in Tennessee or Michigan in the sequels (though we do see Linda reading a Detroit, Michigan map in Evil Dead II), but it's for sure in Michigan in Ash Vs Evil Dead. Burn that one down and the kids take a detour for their getaway vacation. Destiny unfolds (a little differently, but similar enough to hit all the familiar notes).

3) She said "honored the deal". She did but simply removed herself from the deal.

4) "I wrote this book" (Ruby). They were never going to honor the deal in the first place. Baal was shocked when Ash outwitted him and he felt his essence being sucked into Hell. Right before that he told Ash, "Did you really think I was going to honor the deal?" But Ruby did honor it (mostly). Both Baal and Ruby are tricksters.

5) I think "Brock" was just an illusion of Baal derived from what's inside Ash's mind. The chainsaw was just Baal giving Ash a "fair fight" because Baal had one for himself. Fist to fist, chainsaw to chainsaw. Baal was having some fun.

6) The magic of Bill. And it was in that bathtub water for like 2 or 3 seconds before Ash grabbed it.

7) They were back in their time (2013). They saw Ash as a hero because he killed that deadite sister of his. I'm sure Linda had to explain to everyone how her husband (the sheriff) was now dead (including her daughter) in the fight that Ash won to stop this demon, Baal (in the asylum). They believed her, of course, after what everyone saw outside Ashy Slashy's house.

8) Them going back in time didn't bring anyone back to life (not that we're aware of). There's a destiny and Fate to all of this. Prophecies and such. They can burn the cabin down, but younger Ash and his friends will just go to that other cabin in Tennessee where everything will play out in a similar fashion.

9) Remember that drunk guy that blamed Ash for ruining his life at the beginning of Season 2? That implies this all already happened before. Just like how Ash in Evil Dead II saw his picture in the book, documentation of the past where he helped the primitive screw heads. Because it all happened in the last timeline, and a new parallel timeline is created every time somebody goes back to the past. That's why all the films are slightly different but we continue the narrative from the last, because we are witnessing Ash's Fate in parallel timelines. Slightly different, but they all play out the same.

So in this new timeline where the cabin burns in Michigan, Ash and friends go to the cabin in Tennessee, where they unleash the Evil from a version of the book, Ash survives as a colleague, of the archeologist that brought the book there, brings the missing pages, helping Ash send the Evil through a rift in space and time, taking Ash with it to around 1300 A.D. where he helps some people, goes forward in time, grabs the book from the cabin (likely while his other self is asleep in a puddle all day after the Evil rushed him) so no one else can read from it, and works at Value Stops for the next 30 years, running from his traumatic past, then meeting Kelly and Pablo, unleashing Evil from the book that somehow leads him back to his hometown, where everyone still dies, including Pablo, which leads to Ash going back in time (and giving that guy some booze) resulting in the possible burning down of the Tennessee cabin. So things happen differently but ultimately result in the same fates for everyone. It's unknown if Ruby still plays an active part in this timeline, though we do know she watched Ash for those 30 years, so maybe she does all the same things Ruby did in the timeline we witnessed, trying to get the book back and failing, while trying not to make the same "mistakes" her former self (that she killed) had done (like birthing those "useless kids" as Ash called them). This Evil Ruby likely realized that those kids would be destined to betray her, so she keeps her immortality intact and never has to become the good mortal Ruby that learned of humility and fragility of life.

This also is supported by the Evil telling Amanda (in season 1) "We know who you are." It knew (from past timelines, aka Destiny) that Amanda would help Ash.

10) I think it was really once and Baal was playing in Ash's mind that second time with Ash knowing "you're not real, you're not my father".

11) Pablo's tattoo was how they went into the past. Thus, it could bring them back. He could read from it.

12) I used to think that Ruby just followed them into the portal to go into the future, but in Season 3, we learn that Ruby was watching Ash (pictures of him in his trailer, conceiving Brandy which would have been in the late 90's, and working at ValueStop) for 30 years. So Ruby stayed behind, I think. Waiting. Planning. Knowing that she cannot kill Ash, that only an offspring can kill Ash according to the prophecy. So what does she do? Wait for one of Ash's many potential offspring to pop up. Become a school counselor, gain the trust of one (or all) of these offspring and counsel them when they are destined to find out the truth of their father. Then turn that offspring against their newfound father. Then she will rule.
 
Yes it was my take that the Ruby at the end of Season 2 in 2013 took the long route, and I haven't seen season 3 yet.

As for the cabins, regardless of where the cabins used were physically located in our real world, in the Evil Dead world there is only one cabin. I know it looks a bit different but that's just creative licence (or the mischievious spirits at work if you want an in-world explanation). From Ash and his friends POV they visited that one cabin resulting in the events of the first two films.
 
Yes it was my take that the Ruby at the end of Season 2 in 2013 took the long route, and I haven't seen season 3 yet.

As for the cabins, regardless of where the cabins used were physically located in our real world, in the Evil Dead world there is only one cabin. I know it looks a bit different but that's just creative licence (or the mischievious spirits at work if you want an in-world explanation). From Ash and his friends POV they visited that one cabin resulting in the events of the first two films.

In the first film, they are in Tennessee. Ash looks at a map of Tennessee and says they are crossing the Tennessee border. The license plate of the truck that almost hits them is a Tennessee license plate.

In the second film, it could still be in Tennessee, but if you want to look closer at Linda holding the map, it's a Detroit map. Not necessarily meaning they are in Michigan, but considering what the future indicates, you could safely say that the cabin in Evil Dead 2 is in Michigan.

I theorize that since they are going to a cabin in Michigan (instead of Tennessee) Ash is more likely to just take his girlfriend instead of a whole group of people. When going on a bigger trip, people tend to want the group to be bigger (I guess cause they feel safer).

In Ash Vs. Evil Dead, there's no denying that the cabin is in Michigan. It's blatantly stated.

Since time travel is introduced in the second film, the most logical conclusion is that we are witnessing parallel timelines, that the Ash in the book (in Evil Dead 2) is an indication that Ash already went back in time (most likely the Ash we left in The Evil Dead that was rushed by the Evil).
Since things play out differently but similar, it's safe to assume that this is a result of another timeline, of destiny, of fate, dooming Ash in every timeline, no matter the differences (locations, appearances, etc.) to meet the same fate.

So I think that holds true between Seasons 2 & 3 of AVED: that, ultimately, nothing really significantly changed in outcome of everyone's fates up to that point of time (2013).
They do revisit the cabin site (in Michigan) and it's burned down, just as they left it in 1982. They altered that, but somehow, similar events happened elsewhere to lead to the same fates of everyone in this new (but extremely similar) 2013.

My theory is that Ash, Linda, Cheryl, Scotty, and Shelly went to Tennessee (similar to what we saw in the very first film) since the cabin in Michigan, close to where they lived, had burned down. Determined, they found another deal on a cabin with an added road-trip.

I do think the Evil finds a way and creates a similar scenario (identical cabin) for Ash to find it.

Evil: "Future Ash burned the cabin down, trying to fight Fate... Fuck him, we have another cabin with another copy of the book, and we'll call to him... It has been written and it shall be fulfilled... the prophecised one will find the book."
 
They use footage from both ED1 and ED2 in flashbacks. Characters and events from ED1 are mentioned along with characters and events from ED2 and Ash has memories of both films. The show is clearly stating that the events from both movies happened in the same timeline, that there's only one cabin and the cabin from both movies is the same cabin. The "most logical conclusion" is only that the change in location is a mistake or a detail they didn't care about, nothing more, nothing less. Once again, some of you are putting way more thought into this stuff than any of the people who were actually making the show probably ever did.
 
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